Melvin Burgner and Keith Blackburn (April 24, 1982)

              Voices From the Past
Gravity Flow Sprinkler Irrigation ( Continuation of Tape # 25a)
By Melvin W. Burgner and Keith Blackburn
April 24, 1982
Tape # 25b
Oral Interview conducted by Harold Forbush
Transcribed by Jessica Smith July 2006
Edited by Dawn Kim May 2008
Brigham Young University- Idaho ( Continuation of Melvin Burgner, CD 25A.)
Harold Forbush: Continuing with the primary project of gravity flow sprinkler irrigation on Teton Valley Farm Lands. Mr. Burgner, we’ve spent most of our time thus far talking about the South end of the valley coming to the North, North of the last mentioned and the biggest one in the valley that of Trail Creek, The Fox Creek drainage area
Melvin Burgner: Okay.
HF: Were there some projects that developed out of that canyon?
MB: Yes, we had a number of them. The first one that developed out of the canyon was, we call it the foster Oglesbee, this was mud foster and
HF: Johnston
MB: Johnson,
HF: Oglesbee.
MB: Johnson Ogelsbee, I had forgotten his name, they developed their own small system and only covered 160 acres, but it had a few minor problems but it did really help them a lot.
HF: Now his water diverted from Fox Creek
MB: Yes, out of Fox Creek.
HF: Upper Fox Creek
MB: Mm hm.
HF: Mm hm.
MB: And then the other, there were several other systems developed from Fox Creek. On the North Side of the creek there was one we call the Rock Road Group, and this came down along the road that was the main access to the canyon and the area North of that. Mostly North.
HF: That included individuals such as the all the Fantons.
MB: Right.
HF & MB: Harold Fanton.
MB: And Kuntz. HF: Merrill Kuntz
MB: Merrill Kuntz
HF: Dwight Stone I think had some.
MB: Dwight Stone and the old Burnside place. Also on the South side, Nelson, lets see what was his name, golly I can’t think of his name, and the Atkinson place, Hal Rasmussen I believe had some in there. And then Hal had a separate system that was built. Well, it branched off of this I guess, and it went to the South side of the creek and included Hal Rasmussen’s. And let’s see, who else was on that side, there were some other land owners in there, it escapes me right now.
HF: These properties benefited were all East of the main road, were they not?
MB: Right, nothing, well, nothing went…
HF: Beyond.
MB: Well West.
HF: West of the.
MB: West of the highway.
HF: Yeah.
MB: That’s right they all stayed on the East but it bordered Fox Creek on both sides of the, what we call the Rock Road or the one that went to the canyon, the one which they carried out the rock to the sugar company.
HF: Well, coming on North, of course, the diversions out of Darby and that was the middle of the North and the South Darby.
MB: That’s right.
HF: And that brought in under sprinkler irrigation a lot of good land.
MB: Excellent ground that’s true, it’s all, a lot of good land there.
HF: In fact, the middle Darby, now that canyon, you don’t have near the gravel and the large rock that you have in the Fox Creek area.
MB: That’s true. It’s just most of out east. Generally, it’s just a little better soil and ground then you’d have at Fox Creek. HF: Now, going on. East of the Driggs area, had there been quite a few developments from Teton Creek? Now, we had mentioned earlier up in Wyoming in Alta, but down on the Idaho side, have there been any developments?
MB: Yes, these, some of these that we have mentioned from Wyoming, of course, did bring water across on to the Idaho side. The one of the developments was a system we called, lets see if I have the name right here, Strong Chambers Group. And this was the farm owned by William Strong and the one by Reece Chambers. And these two road divided the two places but it involved about 640 acres and the line was brought down to that and its still in use at the present time. And, also, they’re including a little more ground to the east of that, so this one was one of the main groups on the Idaho side. Moving on North of there, there hasn’t been too much development to the North of that in The Clawson area, and part of this is the inability of groups to get together and organize and pool our water for a system. So they haven’t done too much in that area. On the West side of the valley, going back to the West again, and out of, lets see, Horseshoe Creek, the farmers there, Vernal Kay, Donald Jardine, Earl Bainbridge, saw the problems that they were having so they organized.
HF: Was that horseshoe or packsaddle?
MB: Uhm, Packsaddle creek, did I say horseshoe?
HF: uh- huh.
MB: I meant Packsaddle
HF: Okay, yea its Packsaddle then.
MB: Yes, Packsaddle and we called it the Kay sprinkler group at the time, and that system is still in operation, with some minor problems that need to be over come, but its still an operation then going farther, lets see, farther South, what other systems do we have.
HF: Anything out of Horseshoe?
MB: No.
HF: Ripplingers or…
MB: No, they have not been able to organized there.
HF: No organization either.
MB: There hasn’t been there, but going on over a little farther South, let’s see,
HF: Fred Bowen or any of those?
MB: I believe that Fred, Fred did develop a little bit. I believe with gravity pressure, but I’m not positive about that, that’s why one I’m not quite sure of.
HF: Oh.
MB: And then that puts us then back up to Mahogany Creek into the Foster.
HF: Now, on the… beyond the river, beyond the Teton River West of the Teton River over the rolling hills and the Clementsville area, was there any Mill Creek or any of those, were there any developments there? Gravity Flow?
MB: As I remember there were no gravity flow developments in that area.
HF: Mmhm. Some of the farmers did such as the Hooks, bring water out of, pumped it out of the Teton River.
MB: Yes.
HF: But, and they’ve developed some wells I think, haven’t they?
MB: I believe that the case, they have combined wells and water from the river to their system.
HF: But no Gravity Flow?
MB: No.
HF: Now, beyond Tetonia, North of Tetonia up in the Felt district, any, any gravity flow systems in that area
MB: I don’t believe there have been, Harold. I can’t remember any others out that… in that direction.
HF: There have been wells drilled but it’s probably pump.
MB: right, they’ve all had to be pump to get the pressure.
HF: Now, give me your bird’s eye view, Mel, Or Bill, of a scene in early in the morning as you cast your sight up; describe the sprinkling system, the sprinkling scenery.
MB: Okay, part of my job at the present time, of course, is to work in the Teton Soil Conservation District still, and I go up two, three, four times a month during the summer time to work with the District Conservation stuff there. And usually, I try to get up there in fairly good time in the morning and all, when your driving East from Tetonia, one of the first things you see is a mass of sprinkler lines in operation and a fairly early morning sun shining on it, and it’s a beautiful sight. Its really pretty up through there, you catch the sun just right, the white spray going out is just really something to behold, it’s really pretty.
HF: That’s what I’ve heard. I heard people comment, what a tremendous thing.
MB: That’s right.
HF: Well, when we consider the over all picture then, do you have any idea the number of acres were brought under sprinkler irrigation.
MB: There would have to be, lets see if we, about 6,000 acre at Victor. There’s got to be at least another, I would say, close to, maybe, 8,000 acres. We’d be looking at 12 to 14,000 acres of land. Well, maybe, just a little more, I wasn’t even considering Wyoming there. So we might be looking at 16,000 acres, maybe, of land in the Teton valley in the Alta area under gravity sprinklers right now.
HF: And surly you could say that the productivity has enhanced been enlarged.
MB: You bet, this is…
HF: Tremendously.
MB: This has been a tremendous thing for them because they’re raising, you know, maybe double the hay they use to because they are able to get an excellent second crop and there may even be times that they may be able to get just a little bit of a third crop if the seasons are right. Grain production is up, way up; potato production is up, and pastures, that used to be quite a tough thing to find a place to graze your cattle after you got past middle of July, there the pasture grass was dried out and there just wasn’t enough water to run out there. I can remember in our own pastures for instance, a cut out in the ditch… running out from the ditch out on the pasture you had a little green band of grass and the rest of it was dry. And the cattle, of course, would pick that grass right to the ground the minute it grew up half an inch; they had it mowed off again. And so now, you know, they’ve got good pastures and excellent crops.
HF: Now, those systems were designed with a pipe installation and so forth to last approximately 20 years, were they not?
MB: Yes
HF: Isn’t that kind of the rule of thumb?
MB: That’s the rule of thumb for a steal pipe line to last.
HF: About 20 years, and the pay off period I suppose would be about that time. MB: Yes, yes, normally they would, you know, they would plan on, maybe, a 20 year pay out, right.
HF: Of the loan from the government.
MB: Yes.
HF: And so forth. Do you know of any system that has failed; that’s gone bankrupt or anything to this nature?
MB: No, I can’t think of any, I can think of some places where pipe hasn’t lasted quite that 20 years but most of the pipe line in the Alta area is still operated after close, getting close to 30 years, 25 years. A lot of that is still in operation, and I can think of a few small locations where they’ve had to replace some of the pipe but…
HF: Where they have had too
MB: There have had been repairs had to be made, of course, on a lot of it but they haven’t had to actually tear out a line and replace it to my knowledge.
HF: We’re getting into the 25 year period
MB: Yes.
HF: Now aren’t we.
MB: On those older systems.
HF: On those older systems and so on. Well, it’s been a great blessing hasn’t it.
MB: It has, it really has to the valley.
HF: Bill, I appreciate keenly the input that you have provided this after noon. As we close, is there any overall cover observation that you’d like to make, sprinklers, sprinkling systems and so forth in the valley.
MB: Well, maybe, the only thing would be that I feel this has been that, that type of system has been one of the… probably, one of the best things for irrigation that has occurred in the Teton Valley. It’s… once its installed, it’s, maybe, a little more expensive system to install initially but there’s, there’s a little up keep but there’s no operating expense to it, after, once it’s installed. The pressure’s there any time the farmer wants it, and as long as the water stays up good. I think it’s just one of the greatest things that has happened to irrigation in the Teton Valley.
HF: It certainly enhanced the value of the land hasn’t it? MB: Yes, it really has.
HF: And the productivity, the sale price of the land has been inflated fabulously because of that tremendous improvement.
MB: You bet, it sure has.
HF: Thank you so much.
MB: Okay
HF: Now to complete this interviewed topic under consideration today, that of gravity flow sprinkler flow irrigation systems in the Teton Valley, I would like to direct a question to you, Mr. Blackburn, would you state your full name?
Keith Blackburn: Keith B. Blackburn.
HF: And what is your present address?
KB: 293 West Norland Idaho Falls.
HF: Okay. Now, Sir, would you give me the date of your birth and where this occurred.
KB: September 1st, 1918, Thornton, Idaho.
HF: Oh, you’re right here
KB: Yes.
HF: In Madison County.
KB: Not far from Rexburg.
HF: Now, are there others barring that same name who are not related to you in the Upper Snake River Valley?
KB: Not that I now of.
HF: So the Blackburn name is pretty much all related, I mean you’re all related as far as you know, the Blackburn name?
KB: The ones around Rexburg and through here, yes, I believe that’s true.
HF: What did your father and mother immigrate into this country?
KB: My father came in from; he was born in Evanston Wyoming. My mother was born in Salt Lake, and they moved to Lyman, Idaho, and I think he homesteaded there.
HF: Now, I appreciate Mr. Blackburn, that for many years, you were the area engineer for the soil conservation in this area and did have occasion to do a lot of work up in the Teton Basin area. Would you give me as a prelude to that experience, what your formal education was?
KB: I went to Ricks College for 2 years and then went into the army. And after I got out of the army, I finished up my education at the University of Idaho. I graduated in 1949.
HF: And got a degree up there.
KB: Yes.
HF: In engineering?
KB: Yes, an engineering degree.
HF: What phase?
KB: I was graduated as an agricultural engineer.
HF: I see. Now, in the formal experience, had you… in your formal education, had you been exposed to these projects of Gravity Flow, or Sprinkler irrigation, or any, anything pertaining to this subject matter?
KB: Yes, as an engineer, we’d study hydraulics and the flow through pipes but it wasn’t until I was working in the field that I started designing the irrigation, sprinkler irrigation systems.
HF: During these years, immediately following your graduation, did you commence to work for the Soil Conservation?
KB: Yes, I took a civil service exam as a civil engineer and passed that and went to work for the Saw Conservation of Rexburg in 1949.
HF: And that was under, lets see, what’s his name, do you recall his name?
KB: I don’t recall his name. Jerry Thomas.
HF: Jerry Thomas.
KB: He was the first one in Rexburg, the first working it.
HF: Oh, I see. Then with him, did you put together any type of sprinkler irrigation system out in this area?
KB: No, that was a little early. There were very few sprinklers, not too many then, they were starting out, and in the Rexburg area, it was mostly surface irrigation; they didn’t have many sprinklers.
HF: Do you recall when you were first involved in designing a gravity flow sprinkler irrigation system?
KB: It would be, probably, in… oh, in the early 1950’ s.
HF: And where?
KB: And that would be up at the Teton Basin.
HF: And so, you’re telling me as the area engineer for this area, which would be many counties in Eastern Idaho, that the first gravity flow system was introduced and tried out in the Teton Basin?
KB: For this area. Now, when I worked at Rexburg, I was known as a work unit engineer, and I had Teton Basin and Madison County, took the Madison, and then I worked in Freemont County. Later on, I moved to Idaho Falls, and became known as area engineer, and in that I covered South East Idaho, quite a great number of counties.
HF: Oh, I see.
KB: But it did, it started on in Teton Basin. They were the first sprinklers up in this area that, the first gravity sprinklers.
HF: Mr. Burgner commented this afternoon that, probably, the first was up there in Alta Wyoming.
KB: That’s possible.
HF: With John Wilson, and they had a high line canal the a lot of the farmers diverted from.
KB: That’s possible. I can’t… I’ve worked on a lot of projects and I can’t remember the details that far back.
HF: As an overall… as an overall picture of what was achieved, do you have any comment about, maybe, acreage, money improvement, or anything like that in the Teton Basin Area?
KB: Well, at that time, the land in the Teton Basin area is rolling and steep and generally, shallow, not much soil over gravel. And so the ditches that they use to try and irrigate with would, they’d run across the rocky ground and they had very high seepage losses, so that they would use a lot of water to irrigate a small amount of land. And, also, it was quiet difficulty irrigated because the land was rolling and they had to have a lot of ditches and the people had to stay right with their water to see that it would get there. Now, when they started under the sprinkler irrigation, then they’d pick the water up; they didn’t have to run it through the ditches, and it would run in the sprinkler lines and, of course, a little more efficient water they didn’t have it all ( phone rings) running off the land, and the water would go right through it.
HF: Well, Mr. Blackburn, let me check with you a little bit on the organization aspects in each county. As an organization did they have a district committee with a given personal to head each district?
KB: Yes, sometimes, it wasn’t necessarily by county but in Madison County and in Teton County it was; they had a soil conservation district made up of farmers that advised the soil conservation service of the work in Teton County.
HF: Now, the local man would, what was his title called?
KB: He would be called the Work Unit Conservationist.
HF: And Neil Bew, I think, you motioned was the first in Teton County.
KB: I believe he was, yes.
HF: And he was followed, maybe, by Lloyd Jensen?
KB: I think that’s correct as near as I can remember.
HF: Yea, I think that’s, I think that’s so, I knew them.
KB: They, They both passed away now.
HF: Yes, yea? I don’t recall those that followed up there, but I think these gentlemen were two pretty fine individuals. Do you remember Author Bowls?
KB: Oh yes, Aurth Bowls. Yes, he was a chairman of the board of supervisors in Teton County.
HF: Oh I see, and …
KB: That was way back along towards the start of the district.
HF: Right. Now, the district began, I think my researches have told me, about December of 1950.
KB: That could be.
HF: Now, the board was created, I suppose, at that time. And through each district and applicant would come in if you were interested, would this be the procedure, the applicant would come in and indicate his interest then you would make some preliminary surveys whether he has proposed a project had feasibility. And were moneys made available through the government, through the department of agriculture?
KB: Through the agricultural. It used to be agricultural stabilization of conservation office which is a separate office, they had what they had costs share, conservation costs share funds that they did help out on quite a few of these projects.
HF: I see, the government would share by way of a grant and also a loan, or…
KB: Well, they had the costs share through the agricultural conservation program was usually, I think, it went up as far as 50 % of the original cost.
HF: Uh- huh.
KB: Depending on their availability of money and then the farmers home administration
HF: Oh yes,
KB: Sometimes would loan them money to complete the project if they didn’t have it, some of these groups.
HF: Would that usually be on a long term basis
KB: Yes.
HF: ten to twenty years?
KB: Yes, it would be, I think most of them were least 20 years.
HF: 20 years. And this would help, of course, cover the costs of the materials that would go into the…
KB: Materials and installation.
HF: And installation.
KB: Usually, they’d get contractors to put them in.
HF: Would the government insist on approval of the contractor or
KB: The designs were usually made by the engineer; I did a lot of, like most of the designing of the systems at that time.
HF: Uh- huh.
KB: And then we would put out plans and specifications for the contractors to bid on to install.
HF: Oh, I see.
KB: And then we usually had some of our personnel would check the installation, usually.
HF: Now, Melvin W. Burgner worked with you quite a bit in helping make the design.
KB: Yes,
HF: Of the project.
KB: Yes, some of the designs he would do, I’d just check the designs.
HF: Oh, I see. Did you work quite closely with the supplier of the materials?
KB: Usually, the contractor would be some of the sprinkler irrigation companies would supply the materials and install them, and that was generally the way most sprinklers go in. These suppliers are also contractors and installers.
HF: Oh, I see, now for example Roger Brothers.
KB: Way back, Roger Brothers put some systems in, yes. In other words, they supplied the material and then also.
HF: And also put them in.
KB: Yes also.
HF: I see. Was there a Mel Brown?
KB: Yes, Mel Brown it was Mel Brown Company.
HF: Mel Brown Company.
KB: He started his own company in Idaho Falls, and he was another one that sprinkler irrigation supplier and contractor installed them. HF: And he did a lot of work up in Teton.
KB: Yes.
HF: Valley.
KB: Yes, yes he did quite a lot.
HF: I see. Do you remember a name of Maurice Roberts.
KB: Yes, he was one of the.
HF: He was very, very early, wasn’t he?
KB: Yes.
HF: Quite a promoter, wasn’t he, and talker.
KB: Yes, and he worked for two to three different irrigation dealers.
HF: Oh did he?
KB: As I recall
HF: As a sales man?
KB: Yes.
HF: I see. Any other Suppliers furnishing materials do you recall?
KB: Later on Jim Straight did some, they did some work. They’re from Rexburg; they did work on the on farm… main line systems on the Victor Project.
HF: Now, that would be the Trail Creek?
KB: Trail Creek Project.
HF: They did work there?
KB: They did some work.
HF: That trail creek, since you mentioned it, I suppose was the most challenging and, maybe, the largest project up there, was it not?
KB: Yes it was the biggest project as I recall, around 7,000 acres. That one was designed in Portland by the Water Shed Group.
HF: There were some special problems that had to be resolved there, I guess?
KB: Yes, mmhm.
HF: Mmhm, do you have any idea how many acres total were brought under the sprinkler irrigation in Teton basin in that period, say from… well, in that 20 to 30 period.
KB: No, it’d be quite a few thousand acres but I do not know
HF: I see.
KB: The local office might have some records but I couldn’t.
HF: The overall benefit was there was no question about that.
KB: The benefits were pretty good, and in fact, there’re much better now then they were then because of the high cost of energy now. Now, if you had to pump those systems… if they were pump systems like a lot of them are now, the high cost of electricity and fuel for pumping has gone sky high but all the power on gravity system is supplied by the drop in the water itself, sothey do not have any power bill on them.
HF: Now, Mr. Burgner and I visited briefly about this method of attaining sufficient pressure through the gravity drop or whatever, I think the comment was that you had to about have a close to a hundred foot drop in order to acquire maybe 45 to 50 pounds of pressure.
KB: That’s roughly.
HF: Roughly?
KB: Roughly, right. It used to roughly a 100 feet will get you a little over 40 pounds of pressure which is adequate for an average system. Although, we do have some systems up there; one we had on Art Bowls that was what we call low pressure system.
HF: Mmhm.
KB: Which run on low pressure heads and didn’t take as much drop, where they didn’t have the drop. But most of them were… had the full pressure. But the big advantage, of course, was… the two big advantages were the fact that you could get so much land under irrigation; the second thing was that any body… high school kids can move the lines where as on surface irrigation they had to have an experienced irrigator to handle the water or else they… it was very difficult to surface to irrigate that rolling ground. Now, Rexburg is another story where they level the ground and its much easier to surface irrigate in Rexburg where they have flatter land and deeper soil, but up there it was difficult. And then the third thing, of course, was the power, the fact that they don’t have to have a power bill to run sprinklers.
HF: And, really, that area up there is rather unique in it; it’s the whole contour… the whole rolling… the whole geography of the thing bends itself to gravity flow.
KB: Yes, it does. It’s a…
HF: And that isn’t true at any other place is it?
KB: It’s not true to the extended, yes. There are gravity systems quite a few there’s some out at Salmon, and there’s getting to be more around the state, there’s Georgetown has…
HF: Down in Bear Lake County.
KB: Yes, Bear Lake, but Teton Basin was well adapted to sprinkler irrigation. In fact, the water shed group compartment. When they originally came out, they investigated the trail creek project as a canal system to run line canals around, and they didn’t even check for Gravity Sprinkler until we had, over the years, put a number of them in, and they could see that canals weren’t the things to put up there, that sprinklers were better. So the old systems were patterned, and they are what brought in the big Trail Creek System.
HF: I see. And to your knowledge, these systems now with some 20, 25 years have lapsed. These systems have proved very feasible, very… well, they’ve saved the farmers from bankruptcy I suppose.
KB: They have, over the years, been pretty successful. Of course, the crops are easier to farm; where you don’t have ditches and canals out through the property it’s much easier to farm. It was interesting on the Trail Creek project that the farmers were uncertain, and they made them leave in all the canals because they weren’t sure that system was going to work.
( Both chuckle)
KB: But after it was in a year or two they took the canals out.
HF: Oh isn’t that interesting. That’s really interesting. Well, that’s maybe sensible too, isn’t it?
KB: Oh yes, safety.
HF: Well, Mr. Blackburn, I appreciate this little visit this afternoon, and this will complete this interview. And I think it’s a worthy project to consider these things so that it won’t be lost to history. KB: Well that’s true, like we were saying; two of the fellows that were up there originally are both passed away now.
HF: Right, and with them all over experience in the sprinkler irrigation went with them.
Thank you so much.
KB: Okay.