Dohna Meryl Simmons Interview

              Dr. Radke- Moss Women‟ s Oral History Collection
Dohna Meryl Simmons
By Dohna Meryl Simmons
January 2, 2008
Box 5 Folder 15
Oral Interview conducted by Daniel Fuller
Transcript copied by Daniel Fuller Jan 2008
Brigham Young University- Idaho
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Daniel Fuller: Hello, my name is Daniel Fuller and I will be interviewing Mrs. Dohna Simmons. The time is 7: 30 PM on January 2, 2008 in Odenton, Maryland. Okay, first question is basically I need you to state your full name.
Dohna Simmons: Dohna Meryl Simmons.
DF: And your maiden name?
DS: Dohna Meryl Acor.
DF: Acor?
DS: Uh huh.
DF: And how would you spell that?
DS: A- C- O- R.
DF: Okay. When were you born?
DS: 1932, May the 8th. And I understand that it was Mother‟ s Day when I was born.
DF: Wow a perfect day for your mom.
DS: Yeah, I‟ ve had, well that‟ s, that‟ s good and bad because when our daughters were growing up they would fix breakfast for me on my birthday and also on Mother‟ s Day. Well, sometimes both those things happened the same day and I felt like I was cheated. I should have had more, more breakfasts.
DF: It‟ s almost like being born on Christmas.
DS: Yeah, well that‟ s right.
DF: So where were you born?
DS: In Rochester, New York at, it was Park Avenue Hospital which I understand has since been torn down. But it was the Park Avenue Hospital in Rochester, New York.
DF: Have you always lived there?
DS: I lived there until I was 18.
DF: Until you were 18.
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DS: And then Mr. Simmons came and just married me and took me off to Charleston, South Carolina. This poor little Yankee girl went down south and I wrote to my mother and said that, “ Momma, these people talk funny, and they eat this terrible food.” But, I grew to understand it was just a cultural change and I got so, I never did get to the point where liked black- eyed peas but there were good things to cooking in the South.
DF: So, what was it like for you growing up in Rochester?
DS: Well, I was just thinking about that the other day that my girlfriend and I, at that time, the popular artists, musical artists of the time, they appeared at movie theaters and I remember going to see, my girlfriend and I, we made a lunch and well we took baloney sandwiches I think and we went right after school, like in 3 o‟ clock in the afternoon. And we stayed in the theater until the theater closed. I think we saw three shows because they didn‟ t make you vacate the theater, you know like I guess they do that now in the malls. Its been so long since I‟ ve been to a movie theater, I, I just don‟ t know. But that wasn‟ t the case at that time. So if you got in there and you got your seats you didn‟ t have to leave so we just sat there and saw Von Monroe I remember that in particular. He was a big… what could I compare him too now? I don‟ t even… I don‟ t know the stars now. But he was very popular and we just sat there and enjoyed three shows and just didn‟ t leave, so we only had to pay one price. But we also went ice skating and we went roller skating and we went, I guess we went mostly to the movies. But that was our form of entertainment, mostly movies. And they did have dances at school, but uh, and actually that‟ s where I got, kind of got connected with Mr. Simmons. He came home on leave from the navy, he was in the navy at the time, and our class in this small town where we lived they had an annual alumni banquet that everybody in this small town that wanted to attend the annual dance in the Fall could go, you didn‟ t have to be you know, the graduating class or anybody that had graduated from Wyoma High could attend the dance and the senior class was required to you know, we had to sort of host the thing so I worked in the cloak room. And that‟ s when Len came in and checked his coat. I checked it for him and we had previously known one another because my cousin, I was living at the time with an aunt and uncle in this small town and my cousin went to school with Len and so we went to… they had carnivals in the summer time and we went to a lot of square dances. And I had seen him at square dances and I seen him at the carnivals so we were kind of, you know, we really weren‟ t strangers. So we started up this conversation and the next thing I know he… I of course was supposed to be checking coats, which I did, but at some point during the evening he came and asked me if I would like to go to a party after the dance because one of his classmates was having a party and he had come and invited him and he wanted to know if I wanted to go along with him. So I went and it was snowing and we ended up going to… during the evening we ended up going out on the porch and dancing on the porch in the snow and the following day we both went to church and first he would sneeze… we didn‟ t sit together, but he was sitting there and he would sneeze and then a little while later I would sneeze. So you 4
know, we caught a cold being out there on the porch and we both knew that that was probably what had happened. But that‟ s how we started to go together.
DF: If you don‟ t mind me asking, what religious affiliation are you?
DS: I‟ m Methodist.
DF: You said Methodist?
DS: Uh huh. Actually, I‟ m not really a Methodist. I‟ m a Protestant and I was… it‟ s funny, I was baptized in the Methodist church when I was five or six years old and then since that time, I guess I did attend the Methodist church for a while, but then after Mr. Simmons and I got married we started to actually the church we went to in the small town when I lived there for that year we attended the Presbyterian church. And that‟ where we were married, in the Presbyterian church. And then he was already in the navy so then once we were married we for the most part lived on navy bases all around the United States. And we also spent three years in Panama on a navy base and we both would attend church on the base which they would have a Catholic service and they would have a Jewish service and then they would have a Protestant service that they called nondenominational and that‟ s what we were accustomed to, was this nondenominational Protestant service. So it was hard after he got out of the navy. Well I, as a matter of fact, I told that the Methodist pastor that when he came and he asked me if I wanted to join a church and I said I really didn‟ t. I wanted to attend but I don‟ t know I‟ m at the place where I personally feel like we‟ re all trying to get to the same place. When we were in California it was at the time when that Disneyland first opened and Walt Disney was the man who, you know, he created Disneyland, and he gave a lot of interviews before it opened. And I still have this paper that was in this article that was in the Sunday paper and he said that he was questioned, or questioning me about which, you know, what faith he was and he said… well how did he say it? He said, I think, my feeling is there‟ s as many ways to God as there are spokes on a wheel and that is why I send my children to school of one faith and the church of another. That, you know, it‟ s kind of… I just don‟ t want to be one of those people that says I‟ m right and you‟ re wrong and I just… we went to church so long with, I don‟ t know, wishy- washy is certainly not the proper term, but we just wanted to worship God. We didn‟ t want to argue about who was right or who was wrong because as I say we‟ re all trying to get to the same place. So I have attended the Methodist church in Crofton for probably, oh twenty years. But I‟ m not a member. I didn‟ t join. I just attend regularly and I participate, but I haven‟ t committed to being a member.
DF: Is that where you live now, Crofton?
DS: Uh huh.
DF: Okay. What was going to school like for you as a kid? 5
DS: Well I walked to school. When I started school, I guess I must have been five years old. I went to kindergarten and I was living at that time with my grandmother and her husband, my step- grandfather. And I went to a public school in Rochester, New York and it was probably, maybe ten blocks from where my grandmother… where I lived with my grandmother to the school. And I walked to school and, I guess, yeah and home for lunch and walked back to school. And that‟ s what everybody did, they walked to school, you know. There weren‟ t that many cars and I can remember in the Winter time because, this is Rochester, which is close to Buffalo, there‟ s big winters up there and she used to get me ready to go to school, I would have my coat and my hat, and she would take a scarf and put it around my face because it was so cold. But we just were tough and we walked to school. I didn‟ t, wouldn‟ t occur to me that anybody would drive me to school that‟ s because everybody just walked. And we didn‟ t take our lunch because we came home for lunch. But what else would you like to know about me going to school?
DF: Well, how large were your classes? What kind of things were you taught?
DS: I think that our classes were around between twenty- five and thirty.
DF: So, a lot like today.
DS: Yeah. And I remember being in first grade we‟ d put on a play and I was Rose Red, it was Snow White and Rose Red and I was Rose Red. I was, you know, I don‟ t know that I had any aspirations to being a movie star, but I was very proud of having one of the leading roles in this production. And, the other thing that we did, and this part I really didn‟ t like, we had gym class and we had to wear these terrible gym outfits. What were they, they were like rompers, and I would do almost anything to get out of going to gym class. I was sick a lot, or so I told my teachers. Also, another thing that we, and I didn‟ t like that either, we had I guess at that time, you were, I don‟ t know whether the dairy, I don‟ t remember paying for the milk, I think it was just provided, but in the middle of the morning we had to have this, everybody got a container of milk and it was warm, ugghhh, and it was such a chore for me to drink it. I didn‟ t like. I‟ ve always liked milk, but I don‟ t like warm, or at that time I didn‟ t like warm milk. And I really don‟ t understand, as I said, I don‟ t think we paid for it, I think it was the Health Department thought that we all needed some nutrition, I really don‟ t know, but that‟ s another thing. I didn‟ t like the milk.
DF: Do you remember the kinds of things they taught you in school?
DS: Well, we had the basics. It was only, you know, arithmetic, which I didn‟ t like, History, which I did, and English, and I think that was about it. English, History… I never, I never was in a situation where we were offered or had the opportunity to learn languages. Now maybe that‟ s not true in High School, 6
maybe I could‟ ve taken Spanish or something in High School, but I didn‟ t. If there was an opportunity, I didn‟ t and I didn‟ t take Latin, I guess Latin was part of the curriculum, but I didn‟ t do any of those.
DF: You said you were born in 1932, so that would put you around eight years old when the U. S. entered World War II?
DS: Yeah.
DF: Do you remember anything about that?
DS: Oh, I do. I remember the day it started. Let‟ s see, I think we heard it over the radio. We listened to President Roosevelt‟ s speech, you know, letting everyone know that we were at war, and it was, it was frightening. We then, you know, an established fact that we were at war and then we began in the schools and actually everywhere, but in school we had air raid drills where we had to get under our… the siren would go off and we had to get under our desks and cover our heads in case, you know, the bombers came over. And then in just in neighborhoods people for the most part, I think it was men although there may have been some women that were wardens and they would have the siren would go off and all, we had to turn off all the lights and just wait till they all cleared and these wardens would patrol and you… I don‟ t know if anyone was ever fined. But it was, it was very bad if you had a light on, the wardens would come and bang on the door, you know, that never happened to us, but their job was to see to it that all the lights were out. And we remember one night in particular my cousin and I were at my aunt‟ s house and the grown- ups had all gone out to dinner and we, my cousin and I, were there and we were babysitting for the little ones and didn‟ t we have an air raid drill and we were trying to feed the babies bottles and we couldn‟ t turn the lights on and we had to do the best we could, you know, holding up the… you know, there is some light at night if there‟ s a moon out there. So I remember we had a terrible time trying to get these baby bottles filled so we could continue our babysitting, but yeah I do remember that. So yes, we did have air raid drills in schools and in the neighborhoods. And I had a grand… I was, as I told ya, I was living with my step- grandfather at the time and there was a particular commentator, I can‟ t think right now what his name was, but that was an absolute rule that if this commentator came on the radio his… what he would say, he wouldn‟ t say sshhh, or he wouldn‟ t say shut- up, or he just would yell “ HARK!” which meant you had to kind of stop talking because he wanted to hear the news on the radio, you know. So yeah I remember. And there were shortages. I remember rationing stamps that everybody was issued, just so many stamps to buy meat and to buy butter and I think, sugar was rationed. And in order to, you know, you couldn‟ t buy it unless you had enough ration points. So, there wasn‟ t a whole lot of cookies because there wasn‟ t a whole lot of sugar to be had. And they used to have… everybody was saving pots and pans and any kind of metal to… like we recycle now. Well this metal was just, it had these drives and of course they used the metal in the factories too for bullets and to build tanks and so 7
forth. So I remember that too. But I do also remember the day that, it was my birthday, the day that the… May 8th was VE- day. Which was victory in Europe and the day before we were in gym class I had been out with a girlfriend, I can‟ t think what you call it, what do you, ummm, there‟ s a name for it, but you hold somebody‟ s hands like this and you go around in a circle, you just spin around, you just go real fast and she let go of me, or I stumbled and something, and we let go of each others hands and I fell backwards and I landed on my wrists of course and you know. We were just goofing off, it was recess and what I did was sprained both my hands, my wrists, so the following day which was my birthday that I was really looking forward to going to school, I couldn‟ t go to school because my wrists were hurting so bad. And the bells started ringing, it was mid- morning as I recall and the church bells were ringing and the sirens went off and the word spread that the war was over with the part with Europe, was what they called it. Victory in Europe, VE- day. And I was mad, I wasn‟ t mad because the war was over, I was just mad because when it happened they let everybody come home from school. Well, that wasn‟ t fair because I wasn‟ t going to get to go. I was already home sick and so I was annoyed about that. Gee wiz I wish I was able to go to school so I would come home early. But yeah those are the things that I remember about the war. And one more thing, they had, you know, these were known as blackouts when they would have these drills and we were in a restaurant at one time and that was really pretty funny because, of course, in the restaurant we had to turn out all the lights too, and there we were trying to have this restaurant dinner and so my grandmother used to talk about that a lot, but that‟ s that part.
DF: Do you remember what your parents did during that time?
DS: My step- father, I never knew my father, my step- father worked for a, he worked as a mechanic, for a Ford dealer. And I believe, did he continue to work there, no, I guess, I guess that‟ s when he left there and went to work in at Eastman Kodak. [ The] big war effort, you know, everybody I know I had some uncles that also went and worked in the factories because they needed people. But my mother and my aunts they didn‟ t work, they stayed at home.
DF: When did you meet your husband? You said you were 18.
DS: When I was 18, no actually when I was 17. Yeah. Well, as I said, you know, you grow up in a neighborhood and you point over there and say that‟ s him, and I know him. You don‟ t really, but he‟ s there. So no we were both teenagers when we… I mean we kind of grew up in this small town when I would spend a couple of weeks every summer with this cousin and I loved going up there. I loved being in the country with my cousin and with my aunt and uncle. I liked it better there than I did at home. And I realized that as I got, you know, after I got married and a few years past that I was a real nuisance to that cousin of mine because she would‟ ve preferred, you know, you didn‟ t have to entertain like, she had a group of friends there, but then I was always, you know, this was the week that I was 8
going to be there. But she was very good about it. But I thought afterwards, boy I was really, I didn‟ t realize I was such a pain in the neck. But I guess probably I was a little bit. But as I said, for many years we‟ ve been very close because we were close in age, just a year between us, and my sister is really a half- sister, but I never considered she and my brother halves, they‟ ve always been my brother and my sister. However, there was a big distance in age [ between] my half- sister and I. There was ten years between us. So my cousin was just more like my sister because we were almost the same age. And that‟ s been another sadness this Christmas because she got married about a year after Len and I did. And they had been married, I don‟ t really know, Len and I are married now 57 years. So yeah more than fifty years June and Bruce have been married and …
DF: When were you married?
DS: 1950.
DF: 1950?
DS: That‟ s also when I graduated from High School and we became friends. The four of us, we took some trips together and the reason I bring it up is because not only did Debby‟ s husband, who brought me over here, her husband died in November and now my cousin‟ s husband, he died in December. So, it hasn‟ t been a great holiday.
DF: I‟ m sorry to hear that. You said your husband was in the navy?
DS: Uh- huh.
DF: What kind of life was that like?
DS: I loved it. I just, I didn‟ t want him to retire when he retired because we were transferred every… He was a radioman in the navy and he was transferred every two years and because he was in the navy and transferred every two years it gave us a marvelous opportunity to travel. And we have crossed the United States three times, I guess, in the time that we were married because we were stationed in California, no we were stationed here on the East Coast and then we were sent to California and then we were sent back to the East Coast and then we were sent back to California again. And then we spent, uh, three years in Panama, and I just loved it. I just love, I like people and it was wonderful to see, well, as I said, when we were married I thought, here I was all of eighteen years old, but I was a Yankee, I mean I lived in New York and then we went to Charleston, South Carolina. And it was a different world, you know, and that was my first experience. But rather than disliking it, I grew to like it. And every place that we went, I really enjoyed being there with the exception of going to Panama. It isn‟ t that I didn‟ t like Panama, but I don‟ t like thunderstorms, and I mean to tell you they have the grand- daddies of thunderstorms in Panama. And everyday, for 9
during the wet season these terrible storms and the people down there, my friends, they got to know that I don‟ t like thunderstorms. So they were so… they would… as I say, it did this every day and I didn‟ t like to be alone and so somebody would come and be with me because I was so frightened and it got to be a joke because if… I remember this one day we were having coffee and during the late morning and there was more than one of us there. And the lady whose house it was, she had to go and pick her children up from swim[ ming], they were at the pool and she had to go and pick them up because they were in. So she started to go toward her car and then she turned around and she came back and she said to the two other ladies that were there, “ You will storm- sit Dohna while I‟ m gone, won‟ t you?” And they said, “ Oh yeah, we will.” They always saw to it that I wasn‟ t by myself with these storms. So that became a joke. But it was also the fact that they were very considerate, they were concerned because I was so frightened and I appreciate that. But yeah, I as a matter of fact, when Len decided to retire he‟ d been 21 years in the navy when he was going to retire. And I just really wasn‟ t anxious for him to do that because I thought that now we‟ re not going to get to go to all these different place again. But he did retire and it was kind of funny because his last duty station was in Newport, Rhode Island, and we both really liked Newport. But when he retired, of course, he had to look for a job, but it turned, we would have stayed in Newport, but there were no jobs at the time in Newport, so that didn‟ t work out. So we came back to the Washington area and he got a job here. We‟ d been stationed here several times, but when we finally moved out to Crofton, and I guess we‟ ve been here now, probably 26 or 27 years we‟ ve lived in Crofton. But anyway, when we moved there he said to me, “ Well because we often go down to Annapolis to have dinner or get ice cream and be down there,” and he said to me, “ Well, maybe you could pretend that Annapolis is Newport and then you‟ ll be where you want to be.” So, that‟ s worked out quite nicely. We had been back to Newport to visit one time since we left there, but it‟ s a lovely place. But Annapolis is quite nice too. So that works.
DF: Has your husband done any other jobs other than the navy?
DS: Um, except being a radioman, he did very well in the navy. He went in as a… well where you start, I guess a radioman striker, and he was in, as I say, 21 years and he ended up retiring as a Master Chief which is as high as you can go. Yeah, if you‟ re not an officer and he chose not, he was offered officer candidate school, but he turned it down. He didn‟ t want to do that, so he being a radioman, they don‟ t even have them in the navy anymore. But it was a field of electronics and that served him very well because he then, you know, he was very knowledgeable in a lot of electronics. And then he went down to the navy yard that he worked for I can‟ t think of the… it was a contractor and he was introduced during that job to computers and that. He learned a lot about computers and so he started out as a radioman and I think his title was Computer Specialist by the time he retired from the government. But other than that I know he plays his horn and he reads books and he looks up stuff on the computer and I said after he retired his goal was to read every book in the library. I mean, he‟ s always reading. If he isn‟ t playing his 10
horn, he‟ s reading. So he‟ s not one of those people that say I just don‟ t know what I‟ m going to do after I retire, because he‟ s never for one minute been bored, he‟ s told people that. And he‟ s always busy. He doesn‟ t make, rake very many leaves and that sometimes annoys me, but he‟ s busy.
DF: You mentioned one of the reasons you came down here is because there were no jobs in Newport?
DS: Yeah. Well the whole country at that particular time was a bad time to retire. But the reason that he retired was that we had some very good friends who he had thought that he had a job all in place for Len and instead of that company, it was Western Union. Instead it, when it was time for him to go there and interview for the job they had a big cut- back because the economy was in a something of a recession at that time. So that didn‟ t work out.
DF: Was that difficult for your family or…?
DS: Yeah, it was because he ended up… it was hard to find a job, and he ended up selling insurance, he ended up working in a carpentry shop. He went from there to being a security guard at the Xerox Company, and it was… I guess that went on for like… when did we come to Washington? „ 70. It was about three years that he really didn‟ t have a good job. And then this friend in Washington, that had originally thought he had a job for Len, he really did have a job for him. And so Len came down here and started this new job, and I stayed up in… we were in Rochester at the time, and I stayed for three months up there because Linda, the middle daughter, she was a senior and she was going to graduate, so it didn‟ t… he came down here I believe in March and I stayed up there until after she graduated and then I came down here. And we didn‟ t have a whole lot, you know, when he was just starting this job, we didn‟ t have a whole lot of money, so though I really hadn‟ t worked very much during the time that we had been married. Linda was graduated and she went… let‟ s see, she came with us when… Debby had already graduated. She stayed in Rochester. She was working for Eastman Kodak. Linda, that‟ s right Linda started to college, she went to the University of Maryland, and Lisa was at that time 10 or eleven years old and I decided that I could get a part- time job. We lived at the apartments over in Greenbelt, the Springhill Lake Apartments, and I was reading the newspaper, they had a little newspaper like this in the apartments, and they were looking for an assistant social director. And I thought, “ Hmm, I wonder what you need to know to be an assistant social director?” So I made an appointment for an interview and I went in and I told, Martha Sutton, first thing I don‟ t type, I don‟ t know what you‟ re looking for, but I don‟ t type. And she said, “ That‟ s alright, you don‟ t need to type. We have two secretaries in the office that type.” And she interviewed me and I got the job. Well it wasn‟ t exactly what I wanted because I didn‟ t want to work full- time, but it turned out that‟ s what she was offering, so I did work full- time. And I worked there for seven years and I really loved the job because Len as I said, he‟ s much too busy to… he doesn‟ t like to go a whole lot of places and that‟ s sometimes 11
been a problem. But there was no problem while I was working at Springhill Lake because I got to go [ to] lots and lots of places because my job had to do with arranging tours and dinners and as a matter of fact, I don‟ t know if you‟ ve ever heard that funny story. Lisa was in… I think she was ten and eleven at the time, ten, eleven, twelve, like that, and the way it worked Len got… we had a little space of time where sometimes there wasn‟ t anyone at home for her to come home to be there. So I had a neighbor downstairs that used to have her come down there until I got home. Well this one particular dayLen was going to have to work that night, so it wasn‟ t going to work out for him to, excuse me, be there to take care of her. And it happened to be the day that I had arranged a tour for the residents to go and tour the new Mormon temple before they closed it. So two of the ladies that were supposed to go on the tour were sick, so I had two extra tickets and I decided, oh I know, I‟ ll take Lisa out of school and I‟ ll take her with me and that way, you know. Well, I wish I had a picture. She was so, she didn‟ t misbehave, but she let me know every minute of the whole day that she did not want to be there, it was one of these, you know, and she was very quiet during… Oh, she was so mad to be on this, you know, on this tour with these old ladies and I thought it was pretty funny that, what was it, nine years later she was married in that temple that she did not want to on that trip to see that one day. But yes and I went to the arranged tours to the White House and the Kennedy Center and, you know, just did all kinds of fun things and for the most part, in the day time. And so it was great for me, and it was great for Len because he didn‟ t have to go.
DF: What other jobs have you hold?
DS: I was an Avon lady. I also worked in the cafeteria at Xerox. So, I‟ ve been a cafeteria worker a couple of times. And I guess that‟ s… and of course I spent 19 years babysitting for my grandchildren, for our middle daughter, who was the doctor. But other than that, I said actually I was a professional grandmother.
DF: So you didn‟ t do much work while you were child- raising?
DS: No. No, I was a stay at home mom. But before I went to… that‟ s kind of interesting, before when I was a teenager my grandmother worked in a baby shoe factory. I don‟ t even know if they have those kind of shoes anymore, but they were very popular for many years, they were called jumping jacks. And she got me a job there one summer and so I think I was sixteen. So I had that little job. And then, oh yes, I forgot, after I got out of High School, just that summer before Len and I were married I worked in a restaurant as a waitress. So that‟ s the extent of my professional life.
DF: So what are your views about women in the workplace today?
DS: Oh, I don‟ t know. I think if there are opportunities and if that‟ s, if that‟ s, something that I think they ought to, I think they ought to pursue a career if, if that‟ s what they want to do. Yep. 12
DF: Do you have any views on women‟ s rights in general?
DS: No.
DF: No? Okay. Let‟ s see, you‟ ve probably witnessed a lot of history. Like what do you remember about the events during Vietnam time?
DS: Uh, just the protests and, you know, I wasn‟ t involved in any of them. But it was a very unhappy time for the country because there was so much anger and just fear and dissatisfaction and people… well I think we just…. so many people thought that what was happening was not right and turns out it wasn‟ t.
DF: Do you have any particular, I mean, specific memories of that time period?
DS: Umm, no I really don‟ t. I guess I was busy. My concentration was on being a mom and raising my kids. And I know that I was thankful that I didn‟ t have any, well, that children weren‟ t of the age anyway. You know, we always were kind of sad that we didn‟ t have any boys, but at that time it was somewhat unheard of, not like it is now, that women could join the military. But I was grateful that we had girls and that they weren‟ t of an age that would‟ ve had to go. But what was I going to say. I lost my thought. It was a very, it was hard because so much was going on, you know, that the young men who were of the age to be drafted and go, well they were going to Canada, so they wouldn‟ t have to and that wasn‟ t something that seemed right or certainly not something to be proud of. It was just, it was bad. Yeah.
DF: How about during the Civil Rights movements? Things like Martin Luther King?
DS: I remember, do you mean do I remember? Oh yeah. A lot of that time, those particular years, as a matter of fact, uh, we were in Panama. And when Kennedy was shot, and it was bad for everybody, but it was, it seemed like it was particularly bad for us in Panama because we got the news and we didn‟ t get our television… it was a delay. There was a day‟ s delay before like his funeral. We listened to the funeral on the radio and then the next day, it wasn‟ t until the next day we got the television, so we went to the funeral twice, you know, or because it was delayed in time it just seemed, well it didn‟ t just seem, it was twice as bad. And I remember the day that he was shot, I was with a friend at the Navy Exchange. And I was just going to the second floor and there was a man there that checked your passes at a desk and he got up and he walked over to me and he said, “ Your President has been shot.” And I said, “ No that can‟ t be right.” I said that can‟ t be right. He‟ s not, you know, he‟ s not in Russia, he‟ s not in Cuba, he‟ s in Dallas. How could that be? That can‟ t be, that can‟ t be true. Well, of course it was true, but it just seemed so unreal.
DF: Was there any particular reason it was hard in Panama? 13
DS: You mean heard it?
DF: Well you said it was particularly hard for you in Panama.
DS: Well, it was hard because we had to endure… we got the news and then it isn‟ t like you could get it on the telephone and ask somebody if it, you know, what did they, what‟ s the latest thing they know. We were just removed from being on the scene. And when I say it was… it took so long for us to get the facts that knowing that he was dead. But then we didn‟ t, you know, we didn‟ t get the information about how it happened or what was going on until… well 24 hours is a long time when you‟ re waiting for some answers. So those things happened. Well no, Martin Luther King was shot when we were back. We had returned from Newport. I mean, we had returned from Panama and went to Newport. But I don‟ t know what… What kind of reaction are you looking for? Was I saddened? Was I upset? Or…
DF: What your memories were. What your views were.
DS: I‟ m getting them mixed up with the situation that we had when we were in Panama. While we were in Panama they burned the American flag and there was an uprising and we had a situation where we really had a experience where we had to stay in our quarters and turn out all the lights because there were snipers on the bridge that was right close to us. And we were confined to the base and it was scary because we just didn‟ t know, we could hear the gun fire, we didn‟ t know what was going to happen. Well after about two days, the kids didn‟ t go to school, we were just kind of, well as I said, confined to the base. But after about three or four days… I‟ m nosey, and I heard that the soldiers were in the city right outside of the base and, you know, they had kind of lock- down situation. Well, I wanted to see it. So I decided, they finally said if there is something that you, if there is a real need, that you go to the Commissary or that you go into town, if you‟ ve got a real need, then you could go. Well, I decided that I really needed some curlers for my hair. So I went, drove down to Balboa, which was the city, and it was very sobering because as I got to the city there was sandbags and barbed wire, you know, barricading off. And I went in and I got my curlers and I came back and then I was satisfied to stay where I was because it wasn‟ t all fun and games. But happily it was nothing really bad happened. The funny thing that happened was that night we had to keep the lights all off so that we wouldn‟ t be targets from the Panamanians on the bridge. It was very quiet and the men had to go to work. Len had to go to the bomb proof. So we were there by ourselves and my neighbor came over and we‟ re, you know, very nervous because there was no glass in our windows, it was nothing but screens because it was tropical there. And so, you know, when you think about somebody coming to get you, no problem, they can come through the screens. You couldn‟ t lock yourself in. But we were very nervous and were listening and listening, just anybody down, you know, in the yard or in any place. We‟ d go out and we thought we had heard something. So 14
we went out into the kitchen and we‟ re standing by the kitchen door and all of it… it‟ s so silent, and we‟ re just trying so hard to hear, and all of a sudden, WHAMP! And we just, I think we jumped a foot off the floor. We didn‟ t know what that was. You know what it was? A coconut fell out of the tree. But it was certainly scary. But that was, that was an experience.
DF: How about during the 1970‟ s? Do you remember much about that era?
DS: I was…. that was during disco time, wasn‟ t it?
DF: I suppose.
DS: Lisa was… yeah, let‟ s see. We put our house in Largo, Lisa graduated in ‟ 78 from Largo High. So I just remember the clothes really. Yeah, that‟ s about all I remember about it, and the music. I was a real fan of… I loved that music. I remember also, let‟ s see, who, Barry Manilow. Yeah, Barry Manilow, you know [ who] Barry Manilow is?
DF: I do. I like his music.
DS: Well, he‟ s older now, but when he was really popular Lisa had a boyfriend, Lisa had a lot of boyfriends, but this particular one, I think his name was Bob Day, and he was really nice, I liked him and he came one day to the house and he was so excited. He said, “ Guess what Mrs. Simmons.” Then I said, “ What?” And he said, “ I‟ ve got tickets to see Barry Manilow for Lisa and I.” And I said, “ Oh, that‟ s wonderful.” She came home from work, she was working at Woody‟ s at the time and the next thing I know, while I‟ m overhearing this conversation, and he‟ s so excited to tell her about these tickets and he said, “ I‟ ve got tickets to go to see Barry Manilow.” And she said, “ Did you ask me if I wanted to go?” And he said, “ Well, you know I just figured that you did, I.” She wouldn‟ t go. And I thought to myself, “ take me.” She wouldn‟ t go. So he took his sister. He didn‟ t take me. But oh she was a mess. But I was so disappointed. I mean, how could you not want to go see Barry Manilow? I thought he was wonderful. I still like him.
DF: I know during that time period though, there was still a lot going on with women‟ s rights. They were trying to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. Do you know anything about that?
DS: Um, I had forgotten. I‟ m for equal rights. But I didn‟ t march in any parades, either.
DF: Yeah. Remember, it had something to do with… right, everyone was guaranteed equal rights under the law regardless of sex.
DS: Mmm Hmm. 15
DF: I mean, you said you‟ re for that, but what exactly are your views on that?
DS: I don‟ t know that I understand the question.
DF: Um, let‟ s try to rephrase it. What are your views on equal rights for women and men, all sexes?
DS: I don‟ t know why we wouldn‟ t have equal rights. I think everybody… What would be the reason? You‟ re not the right color, you‟ re not the right age, you‟ re not the right…?
DF: Well, some.
DS: You know, we talk about this country as being free and then…
DF: People say that it limits more basically on women, like their choices on abortion, or going into the military. And some say that this amendment would force women to have to be in the workplace, competing for jobs.
DS: Because they want equal rights?
DF: Uh- huh.
DS: I don‟ t agree with that.
DF: Maybe one more question. What are your views on abortion?
DS: I don‟ t find…. I think it should be legal to have an abortion.
DF: Okay.
DS: I, maybe, I ought to put a little addendum on that.
DF: Okay.
DS: And I‟ m probably getting more personal than I perhaps should, but I‟ m an old lady, it doesn‟ t matter. I have a private and personal reason about that abortion because I am an illegitimate child. I never knew who my father was and I feel though that I wasn‟ t abused and I really wasn‟ t… I never felt like I had a real place in the world. I mean, not in the world, you know, in a family. My mother eventually got married and then she had this sister and my brother and that was their family. But I always felt like I was the fifth wheel, you know. I didn‟ t really belong. And I think that if a woman gets in a place where she‟ s become pregnant and she wants to abort this pregnancy I think that she ought to be allowed to do it and because of my own experiences through my life that. I‟ m happy to be alive, 16
but I think my mother‟ s situation, she would have had a happier life if she had not had me.
DF: Do you think it was hard for her?
DS: Yes. I know it was hard for her.
DF: Let me just go back a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Cold War or Atomic Scares?
DS: Mmm Hmm.
DF: Such as the Cuban Missile Crisis?
DS: Mmm Hmm.
DF: What are your memories about that?
DS: The Cuban Missile Crisis. It happened while we were in Panama and our neighbors… As a matter of fact, their ship was on the way to Panama when they had to be delayed because of this. They were on their way from being, excuse me, from the United States to Panama and when that situation happened they had to be delayed and they were. So I heard many stories of how the ship was really not prepared for, you know, they were going to bring them, let them off. Well, they didn‟ t have enough food. They didn‟ t have enough water. They didn‟ t have enough and the people had packed for, you know, thus many days and this was what happened, was they were on the ship twice as many days. So they had divided the ship, put all the men on one side and all the women on the other part and then they took, I don‟ t, they were limited to three minute showers and they had to wash their clothes and try to dry them. And so that was one story. The other story was Len had to be gone to the bomb proof because it was such a tense situation. So the girls and I were mostly by ourselves, at there, and it was scary. And one day Len went to work and he said to me, “ Count, count how many…” because we lived right next to the… I don‟ t know, Panama Canal, when the ships went through it vibrated our house because it was screws on the ships, but we were very close. So to look over to see the Canal was not a problem and he said to me, “ Count how many merchant ships come through the Canal today.” And, you know, I‟ m not… oh okay, if that‟ s what you want me to do. But my mind is not on the… unfortunately at that particular time not on the Crisis. And I had occasion to go in the middle of the morning over to a friend who actually sat on her porch and you could look right to the Canal. And I will never forget, what a fright, I looked and all that you could see from here to the horizon was one warship after another. There were hundreds and that‟ s all there was. There wasn‟ t any… they weren‟ t bringing bananas or canned goods or anything. There was nothing but these warships. And they were just slowly going through the Canal. It was so scary. 17
DF: Wow.
DS: Yeah.
DF: Now were your kids there at the time, you said?
DS: Mmm Hmm.
DF: What was that like for them?
DS: They were, let‟ s see, Lisa was only two years old, but Linda and Debby were, well, around eleven, twelve, thirteen, something like that. And well it wasn‟ t… I don‟ t know what it was. I don‟ t remember their feelings. If they made… that was also the time of the Beatles. They were probably listening to them, well they didn‟ t have any Beatles records down there, my sister came to visit and she brought them several Beatle records and they became the most popular kids in Panama because nobody else had them. But, I don‟ t know that it affected them, you know. We were on the base in Panama and life went on. Not like in the States, you know, you just are out of the country and you get acclimated to [ it]. They went to school on military buses because that‟ s just the way it was.
DF: Well, that‟ s about all I had. Do you have any, I guess, favorite memories you‟ d like to share?
DS: Hmmm. How about my ultimate, ultimate sweatshirt I got this year. It says “ Christmas At Grandma‟ s House” and it‟ s got, you know… we have ten grandchildren and they‟ re like gingerbread men and girls and embroidered under each one is names of all our grandchildren. So, I just thinks that the greatest Christmas present that I got. Jeffery, Scott, and Kevin, and Adam, and then David, and Ashley, and not Ashley. Yeah, Ashley and all of the, all of our Albright grandkids, all the way down to John.
DF: That‟ s a lot of grandkids.
DS: Yeah. And now we got two great- grandchildren. So it‟ s a great life. I guess I would… if they‟ re favorite memories… I remember telling Adam and David, and I don‟ t know whether it was on this interview that we did, but maybe somewhere along the way somebody said what did you want to be when you grew up? And my answer to that was happy. I didn‟ t want to be, necessarily, want to be rich. I didn‟ t want to be famous. I didn‟ t want to be an adventurer, I just wanted to be happy and I have to say at 75 that I have my wish. It‟ s been a great life.
DF: That‟ s wonderful.
DS: So, well I guess I‟ ll… if we‟ re done, should I call Debby to come and get me? 18
DF: Let me give you one more question.
DS: Oh. Okay.
DF: Do you have any special talents or hobbies?
DS: Hobbies, I like to do, uh, take pictures. My hobbies are, I guess it‟ s occurred to me here recently with all my… I‟ m now working on my 29th scrap- album of pictures that I‟ ve taken. I like to take pictures and well I just did it chronologically and I‟ m about a year behind, so I need to get me a 30th album and, or, to put my pictures in. And the other that I like to do is write letters. So, those are my hobbies.
DF: That‟ s nice. I think you‟ re doing pretty well, if you‟ re only a year behind on your pictures.
DS: Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you, that‟ s encouraging. Uh, I actually… who‟ s wedding do I have? You know, so much has happened this year. We have… did you see that movie, Four Weddings and a Funeral?
DF: Mmm Mmm.
DS: Well, we can… that‟ s what we had. Four grandchildren married this year and then our son- in- law died and now we could actually say, four weddings and two funerals, but there hasn‟ t been time. This year has been such a busy year and that, that I can‟ t wait to get the pictures from the weddings and then I get them and I want to put them in the albums and I don‟ t have time because we have to get ready for the… we‟ re going to have a shower because we have another wedding. So, that‟ s the kind of year it‟ s been. But I really do think that perhaps in 2008 will be less frantic. And maybe I can get to those pictures.
DF: That‟ s good. Just a couple of clarifying questions: Can you give me your parents‟ names?
DS: Well, I can give you my mother‟ s name. But as I said, I never knew who my father was.
DF: Or your step- father.
DS: Yeah, my step- father‟ s name was George Gundall and my mother‟ s name was Helen Acor. That was her maiden name.
DF: And their last names were Simmons?
DS: Huh? 19
DF: Their last names?
DS: No, you‟ re asking about my parents?
DF: Right.
DS: Well, my step- father‟ s name was George Gundall and my mother‟ s name was…
DF: Okay.
DS: It‟ s Len‟ s. Len would, Len‟ s side is the Simmons.
DF: Leonard Simmons. Right?
DS: Yeah.
DF: I don‟ t know where my mind went there.
DS: It was kind of funny because, well it wasn‟ t funny, but Len was an only son, he had a sister, actually he had two sisters, but one of them died when they were just… I don‟ t, I guess three months old, was when the little girl died. But anyway, we had, every time I got pregnant we kept hoping that it would be a boy to carry on the name, but it didn‟ t happen. But then, when the grandchildren began to come, we had five grandsons before we had a granddaughter. So we‟ ve ended up, we have seven grandsons and three granddaughters, and they‟ re all Albrights, the girls.
DF: Now that‟ s not so bad.
DS: No, no.
DF: Alright. Well, that‟ s all I have. Thank You.
DS: Okay.