Jean Hayden Thayer Donahoo Interview

              Dr. Radke- Moss Women‟ s Oral History Collection
Jean Hayden Thayer Donahoo
By Jean Hayden Donahoo
December 4, 2007
Box 5 Folder 9
Oral Interview conducted by Diana Lucier
Transcript copied by Diana Lucier Dec 2007
Brigham Young University- Idaho
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Jean Hayden Thayer Donahoo Interviewed in her home in Rexburg, Idaho by Diana Victoria Shaw Lucier on 4 December 2007 Rexburg, Idaho. With comments from Laura Elizabeth Shaw Lenhart and Donald Gilbert Donahoo.
Jean Donahoo: Where do you want me to go?
Diana Lucier: I‟ d kinda like to start right off here with our first question which was where… well actually I need you to state your full name.
JD: Jean Hayden Thayer Donahoo
DL: Great and my name is Diana Lucier and I am interviewing Jean today for my History 497 Women‟ s Seminar. And we are at her home here in Rexburg, Idaho and today is the fourth of December 2007. I have a list of questions that I have already given to Jean and we‟ re going to kinda go down the list and of course we‟ ll have other comments added on in as there are a lot more things she can tell us. So the first question was, “ Where and when were you born?”
JD: Okay. I was born in Tucson, Arizona at a place called “ The Storks Nest.” It is still there, my friend said, but it‟ s not a stork‟ s nest anymore. I don‟ t know whether it‟ s a library or what.
DL: Was it a birthing center or hospital?
JD: Yeah it must have been [ a] birthing center because the hospital where our son Mike was born many years later is St. Mary‟ s and it‟ s still there on the western part of Tucson. And it‟ s been really updated.
Laura Lenhart: So you have to tell us how old you are?
JD: I was born October the 30th 1924.
DL: We‟ ll do our own math, huh?
JD: At the Storks Nest.
DL: Oh, I almost forgot to add also present at this interview is Laura Lenhart. She is the sister of myself and a friend of Jean.
DL: It looks like we have our next question, “ Are you the oldest or youngest child and how many brothers and sisters do you have?”
JD: I have no brothers and sisters and that picture over there is Frank Eugene Thayer. He was my brother and he was three years old when I was born. He died in May, I think, of… I was born in October and he died in May. I would have to get out this other tape and listen to my Aunt Lucy. It‟ s some kind of a… it‟ s more than just the croup, its something big, long word. They were living out in… I‟ m going to tell you about this Arivaca.
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DL: Okay.
JD: I was born in Tucson but we lived out on a cattle ranch called “ Arivaca Land and Cattle Company.” It‟ s on the map over there. I don‟ t know if my grandfather was the manager of it but it was a very large operation. And a number of cattlemen had bought into it. And we lived out there and my father ran the store, the grocery store, and the post office. And I have some pictures here I‟ m gonna show you. So you can kinda get an idea of what it looked like. [ Shows photo] Oh, there‟ s my mother Hazel. And I don‟ t know if that‟ s me or Frank. It looks like a little boy doesn‟ t it?
LL: 1922. It‟ s Frank.
JD: Oh yeah it would be Frank. Yes, it says right there. This was the house in Tucson that my Grandmother Sheppard owned.
DL: This is a nice looking little boy.
JD: Yeah he was. You can see how sparse the area around Tucson is.
DL: [ Its] not that way anymore.
JD: No, it‟ s not. I think we lived out there till Frank got sick and my…
LL: Frank being your father?
JD: No my brother.
LL: Sorry.
JD: The way the story goes he got sick in the night and my dad and mom drove him to Tucson to the hospital. Which I think was about seventy miles at that time. And just as he got to the hospital, well he died. So it must have been something… it was something bronchial I guess. Anyhow it was very, very sad.
DL: Yes.
JD: And I don‟ t think that my father ever really got over it. [ Showing more photographs] You can see how we all dressed. Here‟ s my mother. Here‟ s some of her friends. This is my Aunt Lucy. This is my father, Russell. Well, I should be over on the other side.
DL: That‟ s alright.
JD: And his sister Lucy. Their father died in Tucson. I think this was Grandma Hopely, my dad‟ s and Lucy‟ s mom. Oh, I‟ m going to get all mixed up on this.
DL: That‟ s alright. 4
JD: But my father and his family moved from Massachusetts or Maine, one or the other, when my dad was about sixteen because his father had tuberculosis. And everybody went to Arizona in those times when they had tuberculosis. I guess it was because it was a dry climate.
DL: Right, the good desert air.
JD: And he didn‟ t live too long after that. Let me see what else I need to tell you about this. Well, there‟ s my brother Frank on a horse „ cause we lived there on the cattle ranch. My father was a great horseman.
DL: Now did your mother work also?
JD: My mother Hazel went to the University of Arizona. When did she go there? Oh, that‟ s a whole other story. But the University of Arizona was very small at that time. And there‟ s still some things there that I remember that was there when I was a little girl.
DL: Like buildings or parks?
JD: Buildings. It has grown immensely. Oh, this is hard.
DL: Tell me about the house you had when you were little.
JD: Well, we lived in a very nice house in Tucson. [ Shows photo] This is my brother Frank here and this is back out in Arivaca.
LL: Did you live at both places? Kinda back and forth?
JD: Yeah we lived there until right after I was born. My family did not talk about things much. My mother died of cancer when I was seven years old. She was thirty- two. And nobody would tell me that she died of cancer except my Aunt Lucy. And they just didn‟ t talk about things like that when I was growing up. We lived there in Arivaca until they had a horrible drought come through Arizona at that time. They didn‟ t have large reservoirs and lakes like they do now. They said they dipped eighteen thousand head of cattle that year so you can tell the immense project they were involved with. They lost a lot of the cattle, probably all the young calves and all that. My grandfather did not take out bankruptcy. Some of the others that had bought into the Arivaca Land and Cattle Company took out bankruptcy but he claimed to have paid off his… what do you call it?
DL: Loans.
LL: Debts.
JD: Yeah, his debt, anyhow. And then we… I don‟ t know whether we moved there, you know in pieces or what but we ended back up in Tucson. My grandmother built a house there. It was three blocks east of the University of Arizona on Third Street. It was all desert except a few 5
houses scattered around. And my father built a house next to my grandmother. That‟ s where we lived. It was a nice two bedroom house, all brick, And I think they stucco[ ed] them at that time, but they were built with brick. And our bedroom had three push up windows on one wall and three push up windows on another wall. That was kinda throughout the house to get the circulation going. No air- conditioning, it was just fans. Now what else did you want to know?
DL: Well, I was kind of interested… were you lucky enough to have a washing machine in your house?
JD: No we did not have a washing machine. My father worked for the railroad, the Southern Pacific Railroad. The sheets I guess, probably the towels and the bedding and his bib overalls, you know railroaders wore bib overalls in that day, they were sent to the laundry. And I can remember my dad laying a sheet out there on the living room floor putting all his clothes into it. And they tied it up and the laundry guy came and got it.
DL: Well that was nice.
JD: Yeah. They called them service porches right off of the kitchen was a little [ inaudible] that was all enclosed this had a laundry tub. It was where the refrigerator was and where we came in the back of house. It was a very nice house.
DL: Did you have a telephone?
JD: Oh yeah we had a telephone because my dad worked on the railroad.
DL: So that was why you had one there then.
JD: Yep.
DL: I know you talked about the rough time you had when you were ranching, did the depression affect your family in other ways too? Or your grandparents maybe? Or do you remember?
JD: Oh, I remember them talking about the depression. It really didn‟ t affect me that much. I can remember that my dad said he was able to do some little job turning some kinda of a boulder or something and a guy paid him ten dollars for it. And that was a lot of money for what he did. I don‟ t know how come he knew how to do this but he did. The ranch had to take out bankruptcy and everybody moved to Tucson. My grandmother along the way had bought several houses. I guess she rented them out; at least that‟ s what my Aunt Lucy said. And somebody advised her to buy this property up because we did after my mother died, why we did move quite often to another house.
DL: That‟ s great. So obviously you did live in quite a few different places growing up.
JD: Yes, that was with my grandparents.
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DL: My next question, I thought, “ What was your favorite food as a child? Do you remember any food that you could get then that you can‟ t get now?”
JD: No, I don‟ t know. I went to go live with my grandparents after my mother had passed away. And he was a great meat eater. We had a lot of meat. And I guess some vegetables. I didn‟ t pay much attention to that.
DL: That‟ s okay. Did you like to read books?
JD: I can‟ t remember reading books. I guess I did, but I don‟ t…
DL: What kind of toys did you play with as a child?
JD: When we lived on Third Street one of my best friends, Mildred Sellers, who stills lives in Tucson lived across… Tucson had a lot of alleys you know where the garbage man would come down the alley. We all had dolls and we played together and there was another girl, Mary May Bradford, who lived on the corner and we all played together. We did a lot of roller- skating I know because we had sidewalks. I remember roller- skating a lot and we had an ornery kid who lived next door to us. He was very selfish. And he had these things that you would jump up and down on and I don‟ t know what they are.
LL: Pogo stick or springs?
JD: Springs. It was something he had to put on his feet. And do you think he would ever let us try that? No. And he would ride his bike a lot of times down the sidewalk and we would roller- skate after him. Just things like that. Everybody had dolls.
DL: That sounds like lots of fun.
JD: We would sit on the front porch, you know, when it was hot. Because especially my grandmother had planted a lot of trees and so we‟ d sit out on the front porch and play house or whatever we were doing. I don‟ t know.
DL: It was cooler.
JD: It was cooler.
DL: Did your family celebrate your birthday? What types of birthdays did you have?
JD: One birthday that I really remember was after my mother had passed away. And we had moved from the Third Street house. My grandmother had sold that, down on Park Avenue which was kinda right in the middle of the University. And she had bought a two story house there and she rented the upstairs to college students. And we lived on the main floor and then downstairs was a basement that had not been finished. It had dirt floors you know and stuff. They had a big Halloween party for me there one year. My cousin Patsy and I were supposed to go over to this ladies house and spend the night. And I remember that I started to cry because it hadn‟ t been 7
that long that my mother had passed away. So she had to call my grandmother to come and get her. I remember that. I didn‟ t do much with birthdays until I got into High School and I had several good friends in High School and we would all get together on each other‟ s birthdays and go out to eat.
DL: So there were more parties outside. You didn‟ t have like a child‟ s party here when you have a cake and all the streamers or things like that.
JD: No, I don‟ t think people had all that anyhow.
DL: Not like they do now, huh?
JD: No, it was very different.
DL: What kind of family traditions did you have for the holidays? Did your family do something special for Christmas or Easter or the Forth of July?
JD: We used to make homemade ice- cream in the ice- cream thing. No, I can‟ t think of anything. We always did something. But the Forth of July in Tucson was hot. So you didn‟ t go around running on the desert having fun. They had big parades but I can‟ t remember if they had one on the Forth of July but I can remember when I was in High School I was in the marching squad. This big parade every year and I don‟ t know for what all occasions was, mainly in February when the big… well if you‟ re from Arizona you say “ Roe day o” if you‟ re not you say rodeo. And it‟ s in February. And they always have a big parade there. I can‟ t think of what they called themselves. It was some Spanish name. I can‟ t remember if we marched other times or not. But I know we always marched in February when the rodeo was on.
LL: And when it was cooler.
JD: Right.
DL: What kind of schooling did you receive then and everything since then?
JD: Well, [ I] started out in Tucson at Sam Hughes a few blocks from where we lived. And Mildred Sellers and I walked to school all the time. It was a nice school. I am eighty three years old now; Sam Hughes School is still in Tucson. I hope that they‟ ve remodeled it. But I was surprised to see the name still there. So you know how long ago that was. Yes, I had good schooling. I did not do well in school. I‟ m wondering if I just wasn‟ t very smart or if it was the effects of my mother dying.
LL: More likely.
JD: Because my father lived downtown in a boarding house after she died. And I lived with my Grandma and Grandpa Sheppard. And course he‟ d come to see me real often. But he was trying to work his way up on the railroad. If you know anything about railroading at that time you took whatever you could get to finally work up to what you wanted. 8
DL: Right.
JD: He started at sixteen. He lied about his age to get into the railroad storehouse to work there. Then he started shoveling coal as a fireman. And you can imagine what that was like in Arizona. And then after he and my stepmother married while he passed his exam to be an engineer. And he was an engineer for many years.
DL: Wow, okay let‟ s see here.
LL: So you went to grade school at Sam Hughes and then…
JD: And then we moved to another house and I went to a different school, I think it was called University Heights. I can‟ t remember. Then I remember I went to Roskruge.
LL: Was that a High School?
JD: No it was a Junior Elementary and now it‟ s a Junior High also.
DL: So you went all the way through High School then? Or did you graduate early?
JD: I graduated from Tucson High School and after Don and I were married, we were living in Missile, South Dakota. And there was a two year school similar to Ricks. It was Methodist schools all over the Midwest at that time and Luther just happened to be a Methodist school. He literally took me by the hand and took me over there and got me enrolled and I went two years to school there. Then we were transferred to Arizona and I finished there at Arizona State and got my four year degree in Elementary Education. [ I] taught four years, no I taught ten years in three different states.
DL: Wow.
JD: I always stuck to the second grade because I had the paperwork, you know, what do you call that, seatwork.
LL: Yeah, your lesson plans.
J: D: I want to be sure that you don‟ t forget that picture about my mother. [ Points at a framed needlepoint] That was a pillow that she had made. And I didn‟ t have it framed I don‟ t think until we moved here to Rexburg.
DL: It‟ s a picture of the original Minnie Mouse there from Disney.
JD: Yeah.
DL: That‟ s why I have my Minnie Mouse shirt on.
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LL: So your mother made this pillow for you?
JD: Yeah, and I just kept it. I didn‟ t have it out or anything. I just kept it away. Protected.
LL: It‟ s a little memory of your mother.
JD: Yeah.
DL: She did a nice job.
JD: And I think she must have been very good with handwork and stuff like that. I would ask people about my mother Hazel and they said, “ Well she was a good cook. She was quiet. She was very good with children.” I can remember she had a red dress.
LL: Seven years old is quite young to lose a parent.
JD: Yes, it was. And then it was doubly hard for my father because Frank had died what four years [ earlier] when he was three years old. And my mother died when I was seven so that was four years later. My father was a thirty- second degree mason. He did not go to any church. He began going to church when my Aunt Lucy who had taken up Christian Science was one of the readers in the Christian Science Church. If you‟ ve been to a Christian Science church meeting there are two people who stand up in front. And there‟ s usually a man reader and a woman who‟ s a reader. One reads out of the Bible and one reads out of the Christian Science book. I can‟ t remember what it‟ s called. And he went there with my stepmother because it was his sister who was a reader.
LL: So were you raised Christian Science or raised nothing?
JD: I went to Methodist Sunday School when I was young before my mother died. And then when my dad married Ruth, that was five years after my mother had died, she kinda fancied herself a Christian Science so she wanted me to go to the Christian Science church. And I did. I went there to Sunday school. Sometimes she‟ d go to the meeting. My dad never went. So I don‟ t remember anything they told us there. It was always very quiet there. There wasn‟ t any crying babies I‟ ll tell ya.
DL: Let‟ s go back to some of the questions here. What kind of chores did you have to do as a child and a young woman?
JD: My stepmother Ruth was a very good lady. Her husband had died and they had never had children. She had a brother who had three children so they were kinda her children you know. She worked at the Veteran‟ s Hospital when she and my father were married. And she wanted to keep working. Which is natural because he was railroading and what was she going to do? She didn‟ t like to do housework. So she kept on working and we had a lady named Mabel who was a neat lady. She was part Indian and part White. She had very high cheekbones and she came every afternoon during the week and cleaned through the house and cooked the evening meal. She did that all the time I was in High School. So I didn‟ t do much except take out the garbage 10
maybe. I was supposed to make my own bed which I did. Anyhow, Ruth said she didn‟ t want people to think she was a mean stepmother who made me do all the chores which was nice of her.
DL: It was nice?
JD: I guess.
DL: Did it cause problems later on that you didn‟ t know how to cook or things like that?
JD: Yes. I didn‟ t know how to cook or do anything. That‟ s okay.
DL: You learned, huh?
JD: Yeah, I did.
DL: My next question is were you ever sick or ill growing up or did you ever have a major accident?
JD: I can‟ t remember any major accidents or anything like that. I wore braces for I don‟ t know for how many years. I think they put on when I was too young as I wore them in High School. And I got trench mouth I can remember that.
LL: What is trench mouth?
JD: I don‟ t know. It‟ s an infection in your mouth. I don‟ t know what it is.
LL: An infection in your mouth.
JD: And Doctor Bonnell came out and told my dad to take those braces off of her teeth and we‟ ll get over this trench mouth. So that‟ s how I got my braces off. I don‟ t remember. I always had hay fever. Or whatever they called it. They called it hay fever then. You know allergic to Bermuda Grass which you had all over Arizona. Stuff like that. I was allergic to trees, different kinds of trees. My grandmother always planted lots of trees and flowers where she lived. And of course the windows were always opened so the wind would come through and carry all the stuff.
DL: My next one was what was your favorite type of music as a teenager and did you like to go to dances?
JD: I didn‟ t. You know my parents were, well not like Laura and we were. Like their boy coming home from his mission. My parents I think were old. At least I thought they were old. My dad played the banjo occasionally. And it was fun when we would go to his sister‟ s house and she‟ d play the piano and my dad would the banjo and we‟ d sing. But I think that that brought very sad memories back to my dad so we didn‟ t do that too much. And once in a while my stepmother Ruth who could play the piano beautifully, she‟ d play it once in a great while. 11
My mother must have asked my Grandmother to have me take piano lessons because I took them forever. And still can‟ t play the piano. I just didn‟ t have the talent for it.
LL: Did you have radio stations you‟ d listen to?
JD: Yeah, we‟ d [ listen] to all those One‟ s Man Family and some of the others. What was the guy‟ s name, Burns, of Gracie?
LL: George Burns
JD: Yes, George Burns and Gracie.
LL: Comedy radio?
JD: Yeah, things like that. Oh yeah. A lot of times when my dad was out on the road, why, we‟ d get in the car and Ruth would drive to a drive- in and we‟ d buy all this food and drive out in the desert and eat it in the car.
LL: That was your decadence, eh?
JD: Yeah. We did a lot of family get- togethers on Thanksgiving, mostly Thanksgiving.
DL: Tell me about your favorite dress when you were in school? Do you remember that at all? Did somebody make them for you or did you have store made?
JD: I had a lot of nice clothes. After my dad and Ruth got married, well I don‟ t know, we just bought everything. I remember something that was kinda unusual for me. Broomstick skirts, that‟ s what we called them then. My stepmother asked this other lady named Mildred that we knew who was a friend of our family. She come over and she made me two really cute broomstick skirts. And I remember those because they were really cute. But I had a lot of nice clothes.
DL: How old were you when you started to date? And where did you go on your dates?
JD: We didn‟ t do a lot of dating. We just stuff kinda together. Go to the movies mostly.
DL: So a lot of group dating then? Maybe? Or just your friends getting together?
JD: Yeah, we would just get together and everybody together. Whatever you do.
DL: So tell me about meeting your husband? Was it love at first sight? Weren‟ t you rather young?
JD: We were young. This is another story I‟ ll have to tell you. In the summertime my stepmother would often send me to California to her brother‟ s house. They had three kids that were kinda near in age— a little older, a little younger and Buddy was my age. The girls were a 12
little older. I guess she did this so she could keep track of me and know where I was. So… what was I going to say?
DL: You were going to talk about meeting your husband.
JD: Oh, okay so we‟ ve gone over there and my cousin Betty who was married was getting her vacation when her husband wasn‟ t getting his vacation. She wanted to go over to Tucson to my folks for that week. And I was over there so we both got on the Greyhound bus and rode to Tucson to see if we could talk my folks into letting me go to business school over there in Los Angeles. Well, this fella was Don and his younger sister Joann sat across the aisle from us on the bus and we were exchanging funny books. Real intelligent you know. We just visited back and forth with them you know and one stop we got off and Don and I were walking around. I don‟ t know when you rode the bus last but you used to get off the bus and walk up and down. We got back on the bus and Don‟ s sister Joann had moved over into my seat next to my cousin Betty. So I had to sit next to Don. And that‟ s how we got acquainted. We did talk my folks into letting me go back over there to business school which I hated. He lived in Long Beach and he‟ d come up to see me and my aunt and uncle lived in South Gate. That‟ s just how we got started. The war was already on by then and let‟ s see…
DL: So was he in the military then?
JD: He was in the Navy. He volunteered to be in the Navy.
DL: So is he a lot older than you? Or are you close?
JD: We are about the same age.
DL: About the same age there. So when did he propose to you and how?
JD: I don‟ t know how he proposed. We just kinda went together. Decided to get married and he went to Ames, Iowa for some kind of training with the Navy. When he came back he was stationed in San Diego. And he‟ d come home on leave from San Diego to his folks house in Long Beach. We‟ d see each other and sometimes his dad would drive down to San Diego and they‟ d always invite me to go with them. So that‟ s just how it went.
LL: So this is before you were married.
JD: Yeah, and we got married.
DL: Where did you get married at?
JD: Down at the Bishop‟ s house. We went over there. He married us.
DL: So was Don a Mormon?
JD: He was a long time Mormon. 13
DL: So that‟ s how you got to know the religion then?
JD: Yes. I didn‟ t know anything about Mormonism. My dad had very unfavorable thoughts about Mormons. Usually the Mormons that were around Tucson we out about a place named Big Hampton. And they seemed to kinda a hard luck type of people. And he didn‟ t think much of that. My father was a New Englander and so I don‟ t know it that explains that or not. He hadn‟ t been around Mormons either.
DL: Did your folks come out for your wedding?
JD: No, we just went down to the Bishop‟ s house and Don‟ s folks were there and sister Elizabeth and I think one of my cousins was able to come. This is because everybody was working by then. The war was going full force.
DL: Did you get a new dress or did you get a wedding dress?
JD: Well I had a cute blue suit. No, I didn‟ t have a wedding dress. [ We] just went down there and got married. Don went back to the base right after we were married. I went back to South Gate where my cousins and Aunt lived and I spent my wedding night with my cousin Betty. I think it was a couple of days later Don called and he was looking for a place for us to live. [ We] couldn‟ t find an apartment.
LL: Because of the housing shortage, because of the war?
JD: Yes, really bad. But he found a really nice room in a new home. They were I think trying to pay for their house you know. So they were renting out. They had a couple of rooms they rented out. And this had an outside door and we rented that. Paid nine dollars a week rent. [ We] had to eat all of our meals out. Course you could eat some at the base. I got a job in a florist shop and I just loved that. I‟ d been working before at Firestone Tire and Rubber. [ I] didn‟ t like that. I just didn‟ t want to be an office lady. And that‟ s what my stepmother insisted on me doing.
DL: It sounds like you didn‟ t own a car. Did you take a bus around?
JD: Oh yes, I took the bus or the streetcar. That was one of the fun things living there in South Gate. I took the streetcar. I know I rode the bus some. Heavens no, I didn‟ t learn how to drive until after I was married.
DL: So you have said that the war was already started when you met your husband. What do you remember [ about] Pearl Harbor being bombed?
JD: I remember very well. My father had been in World War One. I remember we had just been sitting in the living room and listening to the radio when they announced this. [ Of] course it scared me. I think it really scared my father too because he had been in World War One. Everyone was either joining the service or being drafted or working in some kind of a defense 14
industry. Of course the railroad was a big part of that. My father took that very seriously. Don, do you remember how we decided to get married? It‟ s kinda all melded in together.
LL: Did you propose to Jean? She doesn‟ t remember.
Don Donahoo: I don‟ t remember what we did.
DL: So how were you married before they shipped Don off to go war?
JD: Six months. And tell them why you were there for six months Don. You remember?
DD: One of my fellow sailors had a car he wanted to return to Los Angeles so I took it up there and when I got there my dad said, “ Why don‟ t I just take you back and I‟ ll deliver it for him.” And as he returned from San Diego he had a wreck. So there was some kind of litigation going on. So out the base they just decided to keep me. So about after six months I went in to and said, “ What‟ s going on? I‟ m just going back and forth here.” “ Oh, we‟ ve forgotten about you.” I was gone in two weeks!
LL: So why didn‟ t you remind them?
DD: I wasn‟ t supposed to be just sitting there on a stateside base doing nothing. I was supposed to become a sailor.
JD: What did I do? I went back to live with Betty didn‟ t I because Glen was in the service.
LL: Who‟ s Betty?
JD: Oh, my cousin Betty in South Gate.
LL: Okay. So after Don left you went back to South Gate.
JD: Yeah, and when he left to go overseas he left out of San Francisco. I didn‟ t know it but I was pregnant. Well I stayed with my aunt and uncle there in San Francisco. I went back to South Gate and I just stayed for a couple of days. And I worked. I worked someplace where Betty worked. I don‟ t know where it was. Typing.
LL: Typing? More office works.
JD: Yeah. And then my stepmother she wanted me to come back to Tucson. So I did.
DL: So is that where your baby was born?
JD: It was. Our little Mike was born in Tucson, Arizona, St. Mary‟ s hospital. [ I] had military hospitalization or care or whatever you want to call it „ cause Don was in the Navy. I think he cost $ 35 dollars.
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DL: So did you stay in Arizona until Don came back?
JD: Yes, I did. Mike was a year old when Don sailed back under the bridge in San Francisco. The Golden Gate.
DL: Were you there to meet him in San Francisco?
JD: No, my aunt had offered to take care of Mike if I had wanted to go. But I didn‟ t want to go as his folks lived in Long Beach and he would go right to Long Beach. I didn‟ t want to go down there. In the meantime we knew that Don was coming home and we knew a lady named Lily Tweedy who owned a house that she rented in South Gate, California. In fact Betty and I had been living in that house. It was empty so Lily told me I could rent it. I seem to have this $ 35 dollars on my mind. This was a two bedroom furnished house and it was $ 35 dollars a month to rent it. She was caught under the rent control. So I paid her rent for two months and when Don came home why his dad let him have a car and he came over and got me and Mike. I know that was very hard on my folks. After World War Two, he went and worked for Firestone Tire and Rubber Company because it wasn‟ t very far from where we lived. And then he decided that well maybe he should go to school or something. [ Speaking to Don] You worked down at the Navy yards or sometime didn‟ t ya?
DD: Yeah, sometime [ inaudible] fall off the ladder. I quit working there.
JD: By this time the machinery at Firestone Tire and Rubber was really worn out. It was dangerous. And that was what you were telling us weren‟ t you? Anyhow, so he decided to go to school.
DL: During the war did rationing effect you at all?
JD: Yes, we had gas rationing. We had sugar that I remember, and meat.
DL: That must have been hard on your dad.
JD: Yeah, it was hard. While I was there my stepmother became very ill. And so they assumed that I knew how to do everything so I was doing everything. It was fine, I learned a lot in that year.
LL: Did all those military bases around Tucson affect you? Where there lots of service men around?
JD: A lot of service men around. Yep. Davis- Monthan. A big, big base. And then there were some bases up around Phoenix area.
DL: Was there any certain thing that you missed because of rationing? I remember that my father said that they missed having real butter. Do you have anything that you remember that you missed a lot?
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JD: Oh, I can‟ t remember the butter thing. I guess it was mostly meat.
DL: Did you have coupons that you needed to use?
JD: My stepmother had got a friend to get her this chicken. I was supposed to cook it for Sunday dinner. I can‟ t remember what I did but I didn‟ t know how to cook a chicken. I think there were about two pieces of it that were worth eating. And my dad gave them to Ruth. Thank goodness she didn‟ t get after me because he had told her that I didn‟ t know how to cook a chicken. Little things like that you know. There were a lot of us at home with our folks during the war. So it wasn‟ t bad on us like it was on a lot of people.
LL: So a lot of single mothers left behind.
JD: Mildred, my good friend, worked all the time. Mary May, two houses down, had her second child about the time I had Mike. So there were a lot of us around. We belonged to some kind of organization, I don‟ t know what it was.
LL: To support each other?
JD: Yeah.
DL: Do you remember when the war ended? Did you throw a party or go see a parade? What did you do?
JD: My friend, Shirley Osborn, whose husband I can‟ t remember if he was home by then or not, she came over and got me. I still couldn‟ t drive. [ I] didn‟ t learn how to drive until I moved to South Gate. She came over and got me and we drove up and down Main Street with everybody else honking our horns and yelling and screaming. That‟ s what we did. Then Don came home. He went to his folks for a few days. His dad lent him this car to come over and get Mike and me, and I, or whatever it is. And we packed up and moved to South Gate. [ We] stayed there for a year.
DL: Kept nice and busy there it sounds like.
JD: Yeah, I enjoyed living in South Gate because my relatives lived across the street.
DL: So how many children did you have all together?
JD: We had Wes, what was Wes, four years younger than Mike?
DD: Yes.
LL: Would you like to see a picture?
JD: Here‟ s Don graduating from Idaho State. Here‟ s Mike who was born while he was overseas. And here‟ s Wes who was born in Pocatello. 17
DL: That‟ s a nice picture.
JD: Yeah, he finally decided that he should go to school. He didn‟ t have any encouragement. He didn‟ t have anybody saying he should go to school or anything. His mother was a very smart lady. And your dad was smart wasn‟ t he? He just didn‟ t have hardly any education. Don was smart but he didn‟ t know it. So he just decided that he wanted to be a forester because of the hats they wore or something. So we moved to Pocatello, Idaho. Am I off of the subject now?
DL: It‟ s alright.
LL: One question. When Don was away at the war did you get just letters?
JD: Oh yeah. We wrote all the time. I was always out there waiting for the mailman to see if I had a letter.
LL: They didn‟ t have anything like leaves or something. They were just gone all the time.
JD: They were just gone. How long were you gone Don? Nineteen months?
DD: I think it was twenty- two years.
JD: It was a long time. He didn‟ t have any leave.
DD: Twenty- one months Jean.
JD: We‟ d have to get this all figured out right because I was pregnant when he left. No, no leave at all.
DL: Did you telegram him when your son was born? Or just write him a letter?
JD: No, my stepmother Ruth sent him a telegram.
DL: Was he able to send you one back?
JD: I don‟ t know. You didn‟ t send one back did you Don?
DD: I didn‟ t hear that.
LL: [ She] was asking about when Mike was born. That you got a telegram and if you were able to telegram back or what did you do. Just write a letter or something?
DD: No, I don‟ t remember having anything available like that. I probably could have gone to the Red Cross or something but it didn‟ t seem necessary.
DL: It wasn‟ t necessary for you? 18
JD: It was fine.
DL: It was expected. Probably other friends of yours had the same problem.
JD: Yes, there was a war on. Things were very different.
DD: There were several million people in my position and so I wasn‟ t anything special.
DL: So did you get any neat baby gifts when you had Mike?
JD: Oh yeah, my friend Mildred gave me a shower. Some of the friends of my folks, couple of them, made a lot of stuff. I still have some of it.
DL: Did you have a baby buggy for him?
JD: Oh, yes, I had a baby buggy. And I had a little stroller that I could carry on the bus. The city bus went right down our street. And I could take Mike and go on the bus. And the stroller thing collapsed.
LL: What did he think of his father? Was he young enough so it wasn‟ t too traumatic?
JD: Mike was a very friendly child. We had a lot of people coming and going in our house, relatives and stuff. And my friend Mildred, I keep talking about her, she came over to Mike practically every day. Of course my dad was there.
DL: So Mike didn‟ t mind at all that daddy came home then?
JD: No, he was fine.
DL: I didn‟ t know, that maybe he got mad at that strange man with his mother.
JD: No, he didn‟ t. He was a very friendly child.
DL: So it sounds like you worked a lot. Did you take time off when your other children were born or did you work all the time?
JD: No, I didn‟ t work.
DL: Outside that home, lets put it that way.
JD: No after Don came home I didn‟ t work. Well, he was on the G. I. Bill that helped us. And he worked at the railroad in Pocatello. Which got to be too much before he graduated. They wanted him working every day, which he couldn‟ t do. We got along fine. I worked at a candy shop in Pocatello. I don‟ t know if, I know that‟ s she‟ s dead, she‟ s the one that worked up in Logan at that big candy thing in Logan. If I could think of the name of it, you would know it. 19
And then they went up to Pocatello and started up their own candy thing and had a little sandwich place. I worked there for a little while when Don was going to school. The reason we went to Pocatello was because they had some kind of housing for married students. Well, it was out at the airbase, do you know anything about Pocatello?
LL: I know driving through it.
JD: [ Pointing on a map] Here‟ s Pocatello and over here was the airbase. It was Army barracks with just partitions between the rooms. So if you were at somebody‟ s house you probably went home to use the bathroom. He‟ d been raised in California and I‟ d been raised in Arizona. We hadn‟ t been around cold weather. And we drove up there and the Lord must have been with us because there was snow on both sides of the road and we didn‟ t know what we were doing. We went out to the airbase and George Wood who [ was] managing the housing out there. Why I remember his name I don‟ t know. But he showed us to our unit. So we just lived in the barracks. [ We] had a community laundry room. Oh, I had a washing machine that we‟ d bought in South Gate.
DL: So were they furnished or did you have to bring up all your own furnishing?
JD: Oh, we bought some stuff, meager stuff. Kitchen table and oh, a cute chair. You know, didn‟ t have much. I worked for the forest service for two summers. The first summer we worked for them we came back and everybody was moving out of the airbase to a place called Portneuf Park. It had been built for housing for people during the war. It was down by the Portneuf River. And we moved down there and had a two bedroom unit down there. Lived there, then some guy at the railroad was moving and he told Don about where he was living and did Don want to rent the house? So we rented a house.
LL: I‟ m sure there was still a pretty good housing shortage.
JD: Oh, yeah, it still was. We moved over there to that house. It‟ s still there. The boys went by it. We couldn‟ t figure it out where it was because they added on and changed the whole thing. It was just a little… I thought it was a crummy one bedroom house. The kitchen had a coal heater and the living room to heat with. Oh, and what they had for the hot water tank was, you had to light the fire in this little place in the kitchen, and it would heat the hot water. I‟ d never been around anything like that before. But it was okay so we stayed there for a while till he graduated. And then we moved to Grace, Idaho. You don‟ t want all this do you?
DL: We‟ re doing pretty good, I‟ d say so.
JD: We moved to Grace, Idaho. Well, this is way after the war. He had another friend who had taken this exam after they got out of college and they both flunked it. It had nothing to do with what they had taken in school. When we moved down to Grace, Idaho we had a job down there as a trapper. After four years in college he was going to be a government trapper. Dad about had a fit. He said, “ Why don‟ t you just work for the railroad?” Anyhow the principal who taught school down there gave Don this booklet on how to pass government tests. And he took it again. He had to wait five years before they gave this particular test again. 20
LL: That‟ s a long time.
JD: Yeah it was. But that was good because we were young and he was young, telling old guys what to do. So he passed it with a hundred and five points. [ Speaking to Don] How come you passed it with a hundred and five points?
DL: Extra credit?
DD: Oh, the test? I passed it with a hundred and one points. I had a five point veteran‟ s preference.
DL: A five point veteran‟ s preference? I know that. They still do that in the military now. My husband‟ s in the Air Force so I know that.
LL: Ohhhh.
DL: Yes, we have our fingers crossed. Oh, this is wonderful. Can you think of anything else about the war or that time that you‟ d like to tell me about?
JD: No my life during the war was, well, my cousins went back to California. My cousin Bud was the same age as I was. He had joined the Marines early on and I was there at their house when they got word that he‟ d been killed. Was that on Silogie [ sp?] across from Guadalcanal, Don?
DD: What are we talking about?
JD: My cousin Bud.
DD: He died on a little island called Gavutu which is off the Florida islands in the Solomon‟ s. It‟ s across the bay from Tulagi.
DL: In the Solomon island area.
JD: Okay, his father had joined the Navy hoping to find his son‟ s grave. My cousin Robert who lived in Tucson was in the Navy. He first discovered Bud‟ s grave. Don was there walking around. He saw Bud‟ s grave. My uncle Carl never came across it.
DL: Was Bud married? Did he have a family?
JD: No, he was not married.
DL: He was still single then?
JD: We were all young.
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DL: Very young, right?
JD: We were young.
DL: So did they get a telegram or did someone actually come to the house to tell them?
JD: I can‟ t remember that or if it was just a telegram.
DL: Just a telegram maybe. Very traumatic I‟ m sure for everyone.
JD: Yeah, it was.
DL: Well, I certainly appreciate your taking the time to tell me all this. I‟ d say that this will be an asset to our library, for all history.
JD: Well, all my relatives joined the service. My cousins, each of their husbands were in the service.
LL: It was kinda the thing to do, I mean, it was more patriotic then now I assume.
JD: Everybody was in the service unless they had a 4F or had a thing that said, you know that letter that you write that…
LL: Some reason you couldn‟ t- physical or something? Or religious reason that they couldn‟ t. No one else was there. Married or not.
JD: We had a victory garden at my aunt‟ s.
DL: That was another thing that I was going to ask. So did she have a big victory garden? Did you all eat from it?
JD: I can‟ t remember.
DL: So you were not the gardener in the family?
JD: Yeah, I liked the flowers and stuff. And a lot of things I can‟ t do anymore.
DL: Well, I certainly appreciate it.
JD: It was a long, long time ago.
DL: Well, I appreciate you telling me this information. I will make sure that I get you a copy.