Irving Woodmansee

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Voices from the Past
Woodmansee Family
By Irving Woodmansee
December 1, 1979
Tape # 113
Oral interview conducted by Judy Austin
Transcribed by Theophilus E. Tandoh September 7, 2004
Brigham Young University- Idaho
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HF: An Interview with Ervin Woodmansee of Rexburg, Idaho on this first day of
December, 1979. It is a real opportunity this cold first day of December morning, to have
Irving Woodmansee come here for this interview and just briefly would you spell your
last name?
EW: W- O- O- D- M- A- N- S- E- E.
HF: Just exactly the way it sounds phonetically isn’t it?
EW: Yes, Woodmansee.
HF: What is your present address here in Rexburg, Ervin?
EW: 16 W 1st North.
HF: Now, a formal question is when and where were you born?
EW: I was born in Ogden, Utah, May the 20th, 1903.
HF: And that means that you’re 76.
EW: 76 yes.
HF: Would you share with me some of the background information of your parents?
That is your dad and your mother and something about their origin, the country they
came from and so forth?
EW: My father James Heywood Woodmansee was born in Ogden, Utah, in 1876. My
mother Elizabeth Ann Moyes Woodmansee was born in Ogden in 1878. My father’s
father migrated from Ohio and his mother my grandmother my father’s mother came by
handcart from the state of New York.
HF: Came to Utah.
EW: Came to Utah.
HF: I see.
EW: My grandmother walked across the planes barefooted and carried her only pair of
shoes so that she could go to the dances when she got to Utah. My grandfather settled in
Ogden. He was born in Ohio. He and his two brothers came to Utah.
HF: Had they been in the United States as far as you know, for quite a few years before?
EW: Yes, they had been in the United States, in fact they were born here, but my
mother’s folks were born in Scotland. And my grandfather Moyes, M- O- Y- E- S
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HF: M- O- Y- E- S, Moyes.
EW: He came to the United States; he crossed the ocean on a sailing ship three times
before he was seventeen. He came and then he went back and got some of his relations
and brought them back. And he settled in Ogden and he worked for years for the
railroad. He was a railroad man. In fact, he was present in the picture of the driving of
the Golden Spike in Utah.
HF: That was in 1869 wasn’t it?
EW: Yeah, 1869.
HF: Yeah, that’s interesting. Ervin, is there any particular family characteristic in stature,
appearance, size or whatever that seems to character in your family?
EW: My mother’s folks were Scotsmen and they were all short. They lived long lives.
Several of them lived up into the late 90’ s. And my grandfather I remember when he was
about 80 years old, I went down to visit with them and I went to see him and I shook
hands with him and thought that he was going to break my hands off. He was real
muscular; they all were. The Woodmansee’s were not too tall, they were medium height.
Therefore, we were all quite short. But one characteristic that we have, about half of us
had wavy, real wavy hair. I even had people ask me where I got my Marcel, but it was
natural. Of course now my hair is gone.
HF: But for years you had a good head of hair.
EW: I could just wet my hair and lay my hands on my head and the wave would be there
a week after.
HF: Is that right?
EW: Yeah.
HF: Any musical talent or anything of that nature in the family?
EW: None that I know of Harold.
HF: On either side?
EW: No not that I know of on either side.
HF: You had mentioned that in Ogden, you were born their, and in our chatter for
preparing for this interview you had commented that you knew quite a number of very
prominent families. Would you like to share some of those families?
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EW: Well my folks knew a lot of them. I left there when I was three years old. But they
mentioned and here are some of them: the Scowcroft’s, the Tribe’s, the Browning’s, the
Perry’s, the Eckle’s, the Smith’s, and the Ridge’s. Those are the ones that I can
remember.
HF: Do you recall for what purpose they were noted?
EW: Well, my mother’s folks on my mother’s side were real hard working and frugal
people. They were on the other side of the railroad tracks, those people. My father’s
folks were on the other side of the railroad tracks and they were kind of what you would
call the elite. On account of my grandfather who was a merchant in Ogden and it seemed
like that everything, he had the Midas Touch, anything he touched was successful.
HF: Turned to Gold.
EW: In fact, I have a note here that says that the Woodmansee’s firm thrived in Ogden.
If you care I’ll read it to you.
HF: Go ahead please.
EW: Just west of the original ZCMI building where the JC Penny Company now stands
was located the Woodmansee union block. One of the finest commercial structures, of
the 1890’ s in Ogden. The building at 350, 24th Street was erected in 1890, at a cost of
18,000 dollars. It was fourth location of the business founded by Charles Woodmansee
in 1864. Mr. Woodmansee was a native of Ohio, and was engaged in farming with his
father in Iowa until 1845, when after the death of both of their parents Charles and his
brother Joseph and Henry moved out west. In Salt Lake City the brothers established
Woodmansee brothers business and mercantile house, one of the earliest trade firms in
Utah. They prospered with Charles attending to outside business and traveling while his
brothers minded the day to day operations of the firm. In 1864, Charles Woodmansee
broke away from the partnership with his brothers, and moved to Mt. Fort, a small
settlement outside Ogden. Since 1854, he had been living in Ogden managing a branch of
Woodmansee Brothers Firm and had decided to make the area his permanent home. In
Mt. Fort, Mr. Woodmansee’s business was being very successful, and in the same years
he married Ms. Harriet D. Porter in Salt Lake City. In 1865, he built his store on Main
Street or Washington Blvd. and 24th Street, and moved his business into it. A family
which eventually included ten children lived in the rear of the store. The business was
moved again in 1869 to a still larger and more substantial building on the East side of
Main Street where he continued to do his business until 1874. In 1870, Charles
Woodmansee entered the theater business by purchasing a building from Wells Fargo and
Company and converting into a theater, and first of its kind in Ogden. He also purchased
eighty acres of property at the south end of the lane and Washington Boulevard, was then
found and built an impress home surrounded by farms, gardens, and orchards. The home
completed in the fall of 1866, had walls of solid concrete and hand carved woodwork.
Architect from the Woodmandsee union block building was William W. Pipe, a leading
commercial designer of the day. It included five stories of retail and office space and was
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built Richardsonian Romanesque style, a unique American style that dominated
commercial architecture in the United States between 1880 and 1900. Many said the
building was as extensive and varied ornamental stone brick and galvanized tin detailing
was unparalleled. Even Salt Lake City’s constitution building, the pride of that city took
second place to the Woodmansee building historians claim. The building had two front
entrances each with tall doors and wide windows leading to the first floors which housed
retail rooms including a full line of clothing, dry goods, and other merchandise. Upper
floor were devoted to offices for the Woodmansee’s family business and other businesses
along with storage facilities. Impressive arches of brick and stone spires and masonry
work made the building one of the most outstanding in the territory. Charles
Woodmansee died in 1894, only four years after the construction was completed. He
passed his property unto his sons and made Charles H. Woodmansee, his oldest son, his
executive. One of the finest buildings in early Ogden was the Woodmansee union block
erected in 1890 at 350, 24th Street.
HF: Well that’s an excellent statement.
EW: And I have a picture and of it and everything here. They’re tearing down now.
They’re building a mall, and there’s big stone up at the top of it that’s got the
Woodmansee date and the Woodmansee name and everything and we’re going to get
that.
HF: The family will?
EW: Finally get it, yeah.
HF: I see. Let’s see now, he was your father’s brother?
EW: My father’s father.
HF: Your father’s father.
EW: Yes.
HF: Okay, Charles. So your father had a brother by the name of Charles H. then.
EW: Yes, yeah we did… he did.
HF: I see. Well that’s very interesting. And it was dry goods storage generally?
EW: Well my grandfather was a freighter. He used to freight to the mines and Virginia
City and in Montana and different places.
HF: That was a supply house then kind of…
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EW: Yeah, well he was in the retail merchant business too. You see he bought eighty
acres right in the middle of Ogden, now. My father said that he could look out of the
kitchen door years ago and see two thousand head of cattle that belonged to my
grandfather so he was a big operator.
HF: I wonder how large Ogden was at that time in the 1880’ s.
EW: Oh, it might have been 1000 or something like that.
HF: Yeah, like as large as Idaho Falls.
EW: Yeah, somewhere there.
HF: Or maybe even less.
EW: Maybe even less.
HF: Not much bigger than what Rexburg is, never know. Well what induced the
Woodmansee family to move up here into the Upper Snake River Valley? This is kind of
a double- barreled question. When did they come up?
EW: Well, of course I don’t know definitely just when they came up, but I think it was in
the first part of the nineteen hundreds or the last part of the eighteen hundreds. I think
Uncle Charles Woodmansee, my uncle, they wanted to kind of spread out so he came up
here. And my grandfather bought seven hundred and ten acres of irrigated land right out
here where the Woodmansee and Johnson ditch is. Seven hundred and ten acres it was
and it was and it was under irrigation.
HF: The Woomansee Johnson ditch.
EW: The Woodmansee Johnson ditch.
HF: Now where is that?
EW: It’s south of Sugar City, right in that area, between Newdale, Rexburg, and Sugar
City in there is where it is.
HF: I see.
EW: Where Martin Nave out there where he lives.
HF: Did the entire, all the family…?
EW: No, no they didn’t. Just my…
HF: Your dad.
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EW: My father came a little later. He came up and they’d land at Market Lake. That was
the closest railroad depot, and then they would get in a buckboard and come through
those tall sagebrushes through the lavas, and they would ferry down here by the buttes
and cross the river and come to Rexburg. Rexburg as near as I can figure out and as
much stuff as I have read about it, there weren’t too many people here. It was one of the
last places to be settled due to the fact that it was a cold place, and it still is. The Indians
wouldn’t even camp here or anything, too cold.
HF: Right in the Rexburg area.
EW: Yeah, right here in the Rexburg area.
HF: Well, that’s interesting. Then your father came later, but Charles H., he was the first
to come up.
EW: He was the first to come up, yeah.
HF: Now, I take it then that when your dad came up…
EW: He came up to work for Charles H. Woodmansee.
HF: For his brother.
EW: For his brother.
HF: For his older brother?
EW: His older brother.
HF: As a farm hand?
EW: As a farmer, yeah. A farm hand, I guess that’s what you’d call it.
HF: You know anyone who has studied the early pioneer period of Rexburg comes to
know about the Woodmansee and the Websters. They joined forces and I guess we’re
talking about Charles H. Woodmansee and James W. Webster.
EW: That’s right.
HF: Do you know anything or what can you share with me about what induced these men
to get together to form their sort of a working relationship?
EW: Well, frankly I don’t know. I guess it was their personalities that they came together
and they decided to open up a ranch up on the Rexburg bench which was then mostly in
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sagebrush. They did, they opened a ranch up there which finally became a seven
thousand acre ranch. They built a ditch from Moody…
HF: They diverted the waters out of Moody?
EW: They diverted the water to the ranch and they had a pond. They had over fifty teams
of horses that they used to work on this big ranch, and they never knew all this water was
underneath. You know, it was too early.
HF: Right.
EW: I guess that was quite an undertaking, and then they got fed up with working with
horses so much, hired help and everything that they went to these two big steam engines.
One of them is up here in their city Smith Park
HF: Is that the one that’s on…?
EW: That’s one of them.
HF: I see.
EW: They had two of those and they pulled tremendous amount of plows and different
things. They had a fire, a grain fire. My uncle, Uncle Charley, he got burned and of
course it affected his kidneys and he got Rice Disease and that’s what killed him. He was
trying to put out this fire and he was right in the front of the line.
HF: What in his forties?
EW: In his forties, yeah I’d say forties or early fifties.
HF: I see. They were not the first to raise…
EW: Albert Lucy was the first.
HF: To raise dry farm grain wasn’t he?
EW: Yeah, I think it was Albert Lucy.
HF: In 1898 or ’ 97 or ’ 98 and the Woodmansee/ Webster branch partnership was…
EW: Farmed in the early 1900’ s.
HF: Then sometime in the 1900’ s.
EW: Yeah.
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HF: I see. Did they carry that operation on for quite a few years?
EW: For quite a few, they did.
HF: The fire was one of the things that kind of brought it to an end?
EW: Yeah, that brought it to an end.
HF: If we can just have you comment about the James W. Webster family. He left when
he passed away in his prime quite a big family did he not?
EW: Yeah, he had a big family.
HF: Uh, boys…
EW: Five boys and two girls as I remember.
HF: I see. Kenneth and Jim and Weldon you say?
EW: That was Jim’s boy.
HF: Ok.
EW: Elmo.
HF: Elmo, Elmo Webster.
EW: Yeah.
HF: And Frank and Tom and Bill I guess were some of those boys weren’t they? So
when they each took their portion, I mean their present day ranches I suppose…
EW: Say, there’s Lucile we forgot about her, Lucile Webster. Do you know her?
HF: No.
EW: She was one of the daughters.
HF: I see.
EW: Three daughters and five sons is eight.
HF: I see. They pretty well carved up the old ranch.
EW: Yeah.
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HF: Now how about the Woodmansees. Was she being left as a widow? She didn’t
carry on?
EW: No she never did carry on, no.
HF: I see. She had a family though.
EW: Oh yeah, she had a family.
HF: And those would be of course your cousins?
EW: Cousins, yeah.
HF: What were the conditions that led into your choosing your way of life, that is your
business and so forth? You were born in 1903 and you came up here about what?
EW: I was three years old when I came here.
HF: Let’s see that would make at about 1906.
EW: Yeah.
HF: Of course you lived right here in Rexburg?
EW: Lived right down and across the tracks. It’s 309 W Main.
HF: Went to school here?
EW: Went to school here, yeah. Went to school here, went to Ricks College and I… Do
[ you] want to know about how I got in the drug business?
HF: Yeah, well once you got your schooling.
EW: Well, what happened, I was working the drug store for the Joy Drug Company and
the boss’s name was M. J. McIver. He was a farmer Rotarian here in Rexburg, and he
talked me in to going back and going to school.
HF: Now what were you more or less working?
EW: Working, yeah I was working. So I did. I went to Missouri and went to school and
went and took the state board and became a pharmacist, and I worked for him for eight
years. It was the Joy Drug but M. J. McIver run it.
HF: Now, where was that located?
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EW: That was located right on College Avenue in the part operated by part of the MH
King Company now.
HF: Oh, I see.
EW: It used to be the Biggler Dean Pharmacy, but we were on the corner, Harold, up
where the village shop is located. It was the Rexburg Drug Company is where I went to
work first, Rexburg Drug Company. One day Ray Cabell, who worked making ice cream
for the Rexburg Drug Company, a son of Elias Cabell used to be the water master and
everything here in Rexburg called me up asked me, said, “ How would you like to help
make ice cream?” I said well I’ve got to go to school. He says, “ Well you can go work
afterwards.” It was in the winter.
HF: What were you in your teens, late teens?
EW: Yeah, I was in my teens about fourteen. So I went up and he and I took care of the
making of the ice cream. In those days we never bought any ice cream. We had to make
everything.
HF: Got your cream from the farmers I guess?
EW: Got our cream from the farmers and we put the ice cream powder in and the
flavoring and we had a big ice house out to the back, full of ice. We’d have to go out
their and get the ice and wash it off and chop it up. And by the way, we used to have to
pack the soda fountain with ice to keep the ice cream cool. One day the ice cream was so
hard you couldn’t get into it, and the next day it was soft you could drink it. But that was
the way things were. We used to Chocolate, Strawberry, Vanilla, and different flavors of
ice cream. I worked for about after school and a little before school, I worked. Finally,
they promoted Cabell. They took upstairs as a salesman to work on the floor so I got his
job. Well, I worked for oh I don’t know how long. And then times changed. The Joy
Drug Store, Biggler Dean Drug on the corner where Kings, part of Kings now is.
HF: Yeah, College Avenue.
EW: They went into the hands of a receivership. One day, Charles L. Joy and Frank
McClure who owned the Joy Drug chain of eleven stores at one time here in Idaho. They
came up here and they bought this Biggler Dean Drug. So they moved the fixtures and
merchandise to Blackfoot, and opened another drug store. They took over Biggler Dean
and opened it up. Well M. J. McIver was the manager. He was the pharmacist, and he
was there for eight years. One day Frank McClure came up. Charles L. Joy had since
passed away. He came up and he came in the drugstore. He said to me, “ Do you think
you could run this store?”
HF: Now you hadn’t received your diploma yet?
EW: Yeah I was…
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HF: Oh had you?
EW: No, Yes I had, yeah I’d received it, yeah I had.
HF: You had received your diploma as a pharmacist by this time.
EW: He said do you think that you could run this drugstore? I said, well I can sure try.
That’s all the agreement we ever had. I am still trying. I was until just recently.
Anyway, he died, oh, a few years after that, so his widow came to me, Hilda McClure.
She lived in Idaho Falls. She had a store there- “ The Joy Drug in Idaho Falls.” She came
to me and she said now you’ve been faithful and worked a long time and all that and we
appreciate it. She says would you like to buy some of this store? I said well that’s what
I’m working for, hanging around here for. So she sold me a portion of the store, just a
small amount. I had to pay the interest out of my wages and then I paid the principle
towards the price of the store. And then I got that ten percent paid for, and she sold me
another. Then she sold me again another and another. That’s how I got it.
HF: So then you became the co- owner?
EW: Eventually, she sold me the balance and I became the sole owner.
HF: When did you acquire the final, you know, the complete ownership would you say,
would that be in the late thirties?
EW: Well, it was before that I think. I don’t know definitely. I’d have to go back and
look it up. I think it was around 1940 when I acquired it.
HF: Well now at that time it was on College Avenue.
EW: Yeah, College Avenue and Main.
HF: And Main. Now did you have other pharmacists work for you?
EW: I had George Shale, H. Shale work for me for twenty- six years. One morning we
opened up. He’d been having some trouble with his, he had had trouble with his heart for
a long time. We opened up and the funny part of it was, we were all there even the girls
that weren’t supposed to come at noon. I don’t know why. He fell dead right in the
store.
HF: Oh for Pete’s sake. Now he was a pharmacist?
EW: He was a pharmacist, yes. He worked for me for twenty- six years. Then I had other
pharmacists after that.
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HF: Now you had mentioned before the Joy Drug took over Biggler and Dean, now are
we talking about Harry Dean?
EW: Yeah, Harry Dean.
HF: Harry Dean had a partnership with a person by the name of Biggler.
EW: Yeah, Roscoe Biggler
HF: Ok and that place where they had their business eventually became the Joy Drug.
EW: Eventually became the Joy Drug.
HF: And you eventually became the sole owner of that place.
EW: I did, I did.
HF: What did Harry go out and he started then working for…?
EW: He a had a drug store in Sugar City, and he sold that to Jenkins and he came over
here and worked for Walt Johnson, in the city drug for a long time and then he worked
for us a little, not too much but some. I forgot to mention that there was two other
managers for the Joy Drug before it moved from up on the corner where the village shop
is. There was John McMahon. He was from Boise. He was the first manager. He left
there for some reason. I don’t know what, and he went back to Boise. Then George B.
Veasy was the manager.
HF: How do you spell that?
EW: V- E- A- S- Y. He was the manager here. He married a girl form here, Hazel Lloyd.
He was the manager for several years, here until we moved down to the corner where
Biggler Dean was.
HF: Now is it correct that in the earlier period of these drug stores, they didn’t do a heck
of a lot of merchandising of various products did they Ervin?
EW: No, what they did, they was strictly what you might call a drug store. They never
handled all this stuff that drug stores now handle. Drug stores didn’t, until food chains
and other started handling drugs, that’s when, the change over came when drug stores
started handling hardware and...
HF: To meet the competition.
EW: To meet the competition, hardware and food items and everything. They had what
you call medicines, Liddy Pinkings. And different kinds of pills, Dr. Pearce’s favorite
prescription and swamp root and all those things that people would come in and ask for
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and they had prescription business. And they sold up in the old Joy Drug up on the
corner where this village shop is now situated; we sold hundreds of Edison phonographs,
big ones. That was a real hot item in those days.
HF: The machine itself and the records ah?
EW: Machine and records yes, beautiful machine.
HF: Yeah, it had a cabinet didn’t it?
EW: Oh beautiful cabinets, yeah, and big thick records.
HF: I can remember the picture of the dog, wasn’t it?
EW: No that was another brand, yeah the picture of the dog looking in the horn.
HF: Into the horn yeah now who was that?
EW: That was, he knows his master’s voice or something, that’s what the theme was. It
was…
HF: But the one you mentioned…
EW: Wasn’t that a Victorola?
HF: Could be.
EW: Yeah, I think it was.
HF: The brand you mentioned was what?
EW: Edison.
HF: Edison?
EW: Yeah.
HF: And it was very important. Well let’s see then you made your homemade ice cream
as a part of your business and in the apothecary, I guess you’d call it that, would you get
a lot of your drugs and you had to mix them and compound them…
EW: In those days when a doctor wrote a prescription, he had formulas. I mean, you
everything, most everything, suppositories, capsules, pills, powders, liquids, fluid
extracts, tinctures, and you mixed it all. Nowadays, all you have to do is, all this stuff is
made for you. All you do is pour from one bottle to another and if you can count up to a
hundred without taking your shoes off, you’re in.
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HF: Well I guess that’s putting it in a very simple way.
EW: Yeah.
HF: But it’s the truth isn’t it?
EW: It is the truth.
HF: Then a pharmacist or apothecary really had to know his compounds, didn’t he?
EW: He had to know, that’s right, he had to know about all these powders and all that
kind of stuff. But when Sulphanilimide first came out, that was the first sulpha.
HF: Now, what was that?
EW: That was back there about 20 or 25 years ago. Then things began to change. Then
they had all these sulpha preparations. Then they discovered insulin for diabetes. They
discovered different compounds and antibiotics for infection.
HF: Yeah, Penicillin.
EW: Penicillin and all these different things.
HF: And wonder drugs.
EW: Wonder drugs, then it changed.
HF: Well that was in the forties wasn’t it?
EW: Yeah.
HF: That was just about the middle forties.
EW: Then they brought out what’s the name…?
HF: Well now you had the aspirin in those early days was in a tablet, wasn’t it?
EW: Yeah, it was in a tablet.
HF: Your aspirin would that be about the only one?
EW: That’s about it.
HF: Ex- lax I guess were in some kind of a tablet?
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EW: Yeah Ex- lax.
HF: Or did you make your compound for physics?
EW: No there were all kind of pills on the market, pink pills for pale people, and Billy
Baxter’s blossom of butter and bee’s wax, all that kind of stuff, and they used to buy it.
Swamp root which was made out of olive oil and sitless powder. When you took it you
had a soap factory behind your diaphragm that made these soap balls and they passed
them, their gall stones and all that kind of stuff. Doctor Martin’s Worm Remedy, you
had capsules. You took them. The gelatin capsules dissolved in your body, and he had
the capsule full of real fine elastic. Passed lots of worms, but they were elastic worms.
HF: Did you have to go to school back to refresher occasionally to kind of bone up on
this stuff?
EW: Well I used to take kind of what you might call a correspondence course to refresh
on that. But even now Harold, if you’re in the drug business and you are away for
months, you don’t know what’s going on. They change like that.
HF: Yeah.
EW: New products.
HF: I suppose that’s true. Well then the old typical drug store was your drug counter,
your ice cream parlor.
EW: And candy was a big item
HF: And candy in candy boxes I guess.
EW: Winton’s candy.
HF: Then you mentioned your records. I imagine you had some newspapers or at least
some magazines.
EW: Oh yes, we had newspapers.
HF: The magazines?
EW: Magazines, yeah.
HF: That was important wasn’t it?
EW: Yeah it was.
HF: At that time and that would be just about it wouldn’t it?
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EW: That’s about it, yeah and patent medicines.
HF: And your patent medicines. What do they say, and I guess Lidia Pinkam pills for
pregnancy to induce…
EW: For ladies, for ladies that trouble, female trouble.
HF: Not getting pregnant. Why what did they say, “ A baby in every bottle” or
something?
EW: Yeah, that’s right
HF: I heard those comments and so on. Well that’s interesting. Who were some of the
doctors that you became quite well acquainted with who sent over these prescriptions?
EW: Well the doctors I remember were, of course I can’t remember them all, but there’s
G. G. Espe, E- S- P- E, Dr. Hyde, Dr. Martin, G. T. Parkinson, and then there was Parley
Nelson, Leon Kline, W. L Sutherland, H. B. Rigby, Dr. Richards, Dr. Rich, Dr. Armsby,
all those were doctors I knew.
HF: And right here in Rexburg?
EW: Right here, yes, there have been lots more
HF: Walker, did you mention Walker?
EW: Oh no, I never mentioned him. Dr. Walker run a hospital here.
HF: Yeah.
EW: See I’d forgotten about that.
HF: Pretty early.
EW: Yeah, over in Levine Gold Home.
HF: Carol Nelson’s dad, you mentioned him.
EW: Parley Nelson, yes.
HF: Yeah, you mentioned him. These fellows would come in or send over there, would
they give the prescription order to their patient and say here take this?
EW: What they generally do is those doctors made house calls and they would come in
the store and leave them, most of them.
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HF: Oh.
EW: They would come to the store and leave them. Nowadays, you hardly ever see
them. They phone you see phone for prescription.
HF: Yeah, they would leave them and then the patient would come to you to pick up their
medicine. Now Mr. Woodmansee you have shared with us of the names of several of the
MD’s in Rexburg. How about the veterinarians? Did they patronize the drug stores quite
a bit?
EW: Yes they did.
HF: What would they come for?
EW: Well they’d come for mineral oil. They’d come for oil that was put out in gallons
for compaction in animals. They’d do lots of preparations for colic and bloat and milk
fever and different things like that.
HF: I see. Can you recall some of their names, fellows that you particularly knew that had
their business in the Rexburg area?
EW: Well there was Dr. Turner was here for years. Dr Whitney, he had a graveyard up
here on the hill where he used to bury his patients, horses and stuffs that died. There’s
Dr. Nichols, he was here for a long time. Ben Hendricks, he was here. There were others
but I don’t recall them. They would write out a lot of prescriptions, veterinary
prescriptions for different things.
HF: Ervin, as you reflect back on your years and career as a pharmacist have you found it
an interesting way of life, occupation?
EW: Well I think if I had to do over again I wouldn’t change very much. You make
some real friendships and some very interesting people. You keep abreast of the times.
Of course you have a lot things come up, sadness and different things. You know who’s
got cancer. You know who’s pregnant. You know this and that. It is interesting and
then it’s always changing. It’s never the same. I mean today you’ve got a preparation
that is red hot that will do this, will do that and it’s gone and then tomorrow there’s
another one. So you have to keep abreast the time.
HF: Did you find or experience that quite a few people who were kind of naive and
maybe who wanted to avoid seeing a doctor with the two or three dollar doctor calls in
those days, they would come to you and kind of get their information so they’d avoid
seeing a doctor?
EW: Yes, lots of them.
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HF: How did you handle those situations? You had to be pretty careful.
EW: Well you had to be in line with the doctors and to be friendly with your customers.
You had to use tact. I mean, you go too far one way you are in bad with the doctors and
you go too far the other way and you’re in bad with your customers so you kind of had to
use diplomacy.
HF: I’m sure that would be true. Did there seem to be a pretty good relationship down
through the years with your competitors here in Rexburg?
EW: We have had very good… lots of places that I have been they don’t hob knob one
with another. They don’t fraternize or anything, but we’ve always had a real good feeling
here between our competitors, most of them, well let’s put it that way, most of them.
HF: Of course you had business…
EW: We borrowed back and forth between one another and just had a good
understanding.
HF: Probably belonged to the same club, the Rotary Club.
EW: Yep.
HF: Rotary Club?
EW: Or whatever.
HF: Or whatever.
EW: Yep.
HF: Well that’s real good. Now when we were preparing this you commented that, and
I’ve heard of course you talk about around the world trip that you took a few years ago.
When was that do you recall?
EW: That was in 1964.
HF: What brought that world trip about?
EW: My brother Carl died and my brother Terrell was in the Air Force and he was
located in Peshawar, Pakistan. He was here to my brother’s funeral. A day or two after
the funeral he was in the drug store talking and Russ Flamm and I were there. He said to
us, he said the King of Afghanistan has invited me to come over to his hunting lodge and
go hunting. He said why don’t you two guys come and go with me? He said I’ve done a
lot of work for the king of Afghanistan, I mean such as giving cadets physicals, etc. and
he wants to reciprocate. Well we didn’t think too much about it at the time, but I noticed
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we went down to Pocatello and then took a few shots for different Asiatic diseases we
had to have and then we done this and that and then sent for passports. So we finally
went down to Idaho Falls to the Magic Carpet tours, and bought two tickets around the
world.
HF: You and Russ Flamm?
EW: Me and Russ. Well we left. What we did, we took a lot of one dollar bills and a lot
of fifty cent pieces, Kennedy fifty cent pieces. We should have taken a lot more because
they were really after them over there. They loved Kennedy you know more than we did.
Well anyway, we went to Salt Lake or Idaho Falls and took a plane and went to San
Francisco. From San Francisco we went to the Hawaiian Islands. We went to the temple
and went to the Polynesian Center. We just took a tour of the Islands and were there
about two or three days, and then we went to Manila in the Philippines. Well, the
economy in Manila at the time we were there in that you couldn’t go out on the street but
what a dozen bums would hit you for you know this or that
HF: Yeah.
EW: But anyway, we was only in Manila a couple of days and we left and went to Tokyo,
Japan which was a long flight. We went by Pan Am around the world.
HF: Pan American?
EW: Pan American. So we got in Japan and we took tours in Japan. We were in Japan;
we were coming back from Lake Hakooni. That’s where we went to go look at Mount
Fuji. There was Japanese that stayed with us for twenty- five miles. We were in a bus
traveling and he’s right with us, right to the side of us. Boy I’ll tell you he really had
stamina. That bus wheeled and it couldn’t leave him. Well anyway, we were in Japan,
we went and saw everything, we went to the Gainsay, and we went to the night clubs and
watched the action, wonderful place eleven million people. We went up in the Tokyo
Tower which is ten or twelve feet higher than the Eiffel Tower in Paris, and then we left
Japan and went to India. We went to New Delhi. We were in New Delhi, we had an
incident. We were coming from the airport which is ten or fifteen miles outside of New
Delhi. We were to the Japans hotel in New Delhi. One of these sacred cows, these white
cows with a lump on their back and this guy about unloaded us all in this bus trying to
miss this cow which he did. He’d of killed us all to not hit that sacred cow.
HF: Yeah.
EW: Well anyway, and right next to this Japan hotel was the headquarters.
HF: Track two continuing, Ervin your account around the world.
EW: Okay, Well anyway, these minarets that I mentioned that stand up they are 7 percent
off the centre so that in case of an earth quake or any disturbance they won’t fall on this
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building. Now the writing out in front of this building which extends across the front and
down the side is a big door it looks like their different in size letters but they are all the
same size but they just insert. They taught of everything when they built this building. It
is one of the marvels of construction, even now. And this man that had this built for
burial place for his wife, when he got down and he killed 1400 of the best artisans so they
couldn’t duplicate it. He killed them, had them put to death. Alright we went from India,
we went to Hong Kong. Hong Kong is teaming infernal of people. The sides of the hills
are covered with past board shacks and tin shacks and those come from China refugees.
And one monsoon or heavy rain or something comes, boy it’s a mess. It just comes, you
know the mud and stuff run down these hills and these poor people who are in these
shacks is terrible. And we met a China man there, that how we come to meet him, we met
him and he had to introduce himself to us, and he asked us where we were staying and
told him of the hotel we were staying. This China man his name was Harry Tom. He was
a tailor; there are lots of tailors in Hong Kong. And he said I am tailor if you gentleman
want to buy any clothes, he said I’d sure like to you home and take look at my place.
Well we never thought anything about it, but the next morning we were sitting in the
lobby of the hotel and here he was, standing right behind where we were sitting. He said,
“ You ready to go?” and we said yeah, we go with you. So we went over to his tailor shop.
Oh he has some beautiful stuff and we bought some two or three shops a piece, top coats,
cashmere and all that kind of stuff.
HF: Sent them home ah?
EW: No, we took them with us and by the way we went to several stores in Hong Kong
you could see stuffs there that you don’t even know it exists merchandize. Everything
you can imagine, mountains of it, beautiful stuff, gold, silver, brush, everything. And we
went broke with bargains so we had to call our bankers here. Made a call, but anyway, by
the way this China man had been here twice to see us. He didn’t just come to see us but
he happened to be here in the United States selling clothes and he came out west here.
And I took him to Yellow Stone Park. I want him to see that he called it Yellow Park. I
took him up there and I was up at the lake and he told me that he had to catch a plane in
Idaho Falls, in just an hour and three quarters. And I got him, I went down through
Jackson Hole and down and I got him there. But he should have told me day before but
he didn’t that he had to catch a plane. That anyway, it was quite an experience.
HF: Are you, did [ you] do some hunting?
EW: Oh yeah, I will tell you about that later. We will come to that. But anyway, we went
from Hong Kong to Karachi Pakistan. We boarded a DC- 8 plane, and I didn’t [ know]
whether to get on there, didn’t know if it was safe or not after being in them big jobs. I
asked a fellow there and he said don’t you worry and he said the Pakistanians have got
the best record of anybody flying, no trouble, no, never. So we went from Karachi to
Pishua which is a thousand miles up to Cinders River. Flew right up to Cinders River
beautiful trip. And then when we got there, my brother he was next to the commanders
there. Next to the commander and there are seventeen hundred men there in a compound.
And what they did there, they listening to station across the street and they listen to
22
everything that went on in the Cremon. Even they could hear the heart beat of it. It is
sensitive. And then we met, we were there for twenty- three days in Pakistan and there
was a fellow whose name was Aebischer, Lieutenant Colonel Aebischer, he was a
military attaché from Kabul, Afghanistan. So he came to Pesua with two station wagons,
and we left and he took a house boy, oh wait we left to go to Kabul, we went through the
Saline tunnel, that is a tunnel of the Russians built, big tunnel with snow sheds and
everything through the least big mountains and then we went through this pass, the Tiber,
the Khyber pass to Kabul and to his home, and every home there of anybody of any
consequence has wall round it. What the fellow does, even a farmer, he built wall around
his little plot. He takes all tops and put in his wall in his house and then he forms rocks.
But any way, he had a home and what they do, they put on parties and invite all these
Russians and different people there and they’d have parties and drink and have men
they’d listen, keep their ears open and get a lot of information. That’s mainly what they
were there for. But we were there for a week and took two station wagons. He took a
house boy; he took a cook and a mechanic, three with us so we wouldn’t have to wash
dishes, make any bed, shine any shoes, do any cooking or anything with us. We went to
this Agar valley, which is about hundred and twenty- five from Kabul, in the Agar Valley,
and this king had a lodge there. He had lake and then a stream that meander down and
then another lake. Stream is about 5 mile long and then had fill a whole track about 10’ 8
pounded, great big one, nobody fixed, we did have some nice fix. And then we were there
for a day or two and these little guys, five of them, brought these stallions. We went on a
stud they were the king’s stallions. The kings, we rode on the king’s lodge. And they took
us up in these big mountains and the in Hindu Cush Mountain that means Hindu killer.
And we went up; oh I don’t know how high, it was really up in the air. And on the way
up there is Nile, I bet you I saw five- hundred wild yaks, these big animals were hair on
the fore part of the yak. And also some where they drive a stake in the ground and they
have a flat place and then they have four or six animals tied together and they go round
like this and whine over wheat. The same as they did in bible biblical times. And then
they throw up and let the wind blow the yak that is the way they harvested. Real wild
country and we handled ibex, I- B- E- X, is a small animal like a deer, it’s got horns,
curved horns, and there are two knobs for each ear. We got three of them. In these
mountains what they do, they send men out, drivers out in the mountains make a noise to
drive these animals between us in these big high cliffs. They drive right out in front of
you to get them.
HF: You hunt them with rifles?
EW: We hunt them with rifles, yeah. I, of course, everybody these are big fishes, big deer
get away, but I had one of the big ones wounded but I never got any. The fellow told me
that the gun, the shell hit a rock and hit the animal, hit him in the flank or somewhere
because he bled profusely but we never got get him. I think they have section caps on
their feet. I won’t look to be like straight up. These rocks oh boy, what a country. And
then we brought them, we packed them; oh these little guys walked all the way up there
and carried their rifles. The night when camped they got a couple of washed up of this
yak dank, and built a big fire. And we got in sleeping bags and fell under the water and
everything and laid down it was cold. And they just laid down outside with bare legs and
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everything around this far all night long… And what they usually ship parties and a tea.
A ship party is a thing made out grain and is about as big as a pie plate, and they made it
out of dough and carry it back here on their back in order to keep them warm and give
them support. And that is what they eat just milky tea.
HF: Are they rather small people?
EW: They are short but they are tougher than you can imagine how tough those guys are.
Walked on the storm with bear feet, I have never seen anything of it. Well anyway, we
took these animals and took them back down to the King’s lodge and they let them lay
out in the sun for about an hour, two or three hours. Let the flies soften them up. Yeah,
before they took them. But that trip will have caused us, oh yeah. Then Harold we went
from Kabul we went back to Persia then we went to Egypt. We went to the pyramids and
here and around the kings wherever. And then we went to Athens, Greece. We toured
Athens and then we went to Frankfurt, then we went to Rome, then we went to London,
then Paris and finally when we got to a place one night just this twilight and started for
America and it was twilight when we got to New York. And it was really a trip. This trip
would have caused us if we’d have to pay for it. It would have cost us forty- thousand
dollars a piece. But it didn’t cost us very much.
HF: You were gone well over a month, I suppose?
EW: We were gone nine weeks.
HF: Nine weeks.
EW: Yeah and when we were in Persia, Pakistan, we went to all the places of interest.
We went to Rowe, Pendi, we went to Mingler, we went to Laho. Laho is where whole old
Zimlers big English can and it had knobs on it and I don’t know whether you have ever
seen pictures of it. But we’ve seen all kinds of stuff. And the mountains are real high the
Shendigrace Mountain. And we could see Mount Everest, Parbat, Tayte 12. And all those
big mountains are right here just fifty miles away from us on this side.
HF: I’ve always marveled since knowing you of your great enthusiasm for life and
wanting to do and see and enjoy and I guess with that, I would like to get into another
question. I know you are tremendous hunter, big game hunter. You’ve been out a lot of
times, before we close I’d like to have you share with me, something about your hunting;
you told me you’ve been out probably a hundred hunting trips, which could take you
away from home two or three nights or even longer and so on. You might just comment
on, about some of these experiences.
EW: Well, I’ve been hunting and I even started hunting dear and things like that when I
was young. I’ve always liked guns, in fact I’d had a lot of guns. I never fell in love with
them. I mean I’d sell them in different and I finally ended up with a gun that I had fellow
make, is my favorite, I have it. Then I have four or five others but I’ve always liked to go
hunting, well I like the outdoors, and I’ve been with lot of people here in Rexburg
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hunting for years. I’ve hunted with Dwain Warling and Nile Brown. And I have hunted
with Dr. Rich; I’ve hunted with Ken Woods and John Beam. Well just any amount of
fellows and I’ve had some quite experiences at different times. In fact one time, Harold J.
Seybold used to be here he had five donkeys that we used to borrow or rent and the pack
saddles and we’d haul them out there and we’d pack them and go into the mountains and
stay for days and days.
HF: Will this be out in the Simon?
EW: That was in the Simon River Mountains. I never forget one time we had a deer, on a
mule on a donkey. These are little donkeys not very big but they could carry quite a bit.
And we had deer on one of them who is coming up the middle fork and we were going
along and a fellow came along on a horse and there were three donkeys. We were
following them. And then there was Ken Webster, myself and second lad. We were
following them and a guy came along on a horse and started to laugh. And Ken Webster
asked him and said, “ What are you laughing at?” he says three asses following three more
asses. And Ken Webster said, “ If I weren’t on the damn tag I would give you a reckon.”
But I’ve was flying Iowa one time went after big mountain sheep. They are hardest big
animals we’ve, have to had.
HE: Are they still out in that country?
EW: They are out in that country. We left them, Albert Lumber was our Parker. He took
a string of horses, we had our own horses. We had a horse a piece. We went from his
range down to Yellow Jacket to the Cameos. We went down the Cameos the middle
floor. We went from the Middle Fork down to Big Creek which is quite a trip. And then
we went up from Big Creek to Taylor’s Range. From Taylor’s Range we hunted a while
and we came back down and crossed the Middle Fork, and went up Water Fall Creek to
Terry’s Lake. And we were Terry’s Lake; there are four rights that make Terry’s Step
down. Like you stand in a path and look at them most beautiful site of the country. But
anyway we camped at Terry’s Lake and then we left and went to Hart Lake and to
Wilson Creek which is a big creek. I mean it’s a big canyon. We went down to Trapper
Johnson’s Cabin on Wilson Creek. He had hot springs down there but full of water
snakes, oh, I’ve never seen so many water snakes. But we cleaned it out no shoverlor and
cleaned it up. Drove the water snakes and everything and took a bath, a good warmth
bath. And then we walked up over the bridge and by the way we left early in the morning.
And it took us to eleven o’clock in the morning to get up on these ridges that high. And
down into Alpine, and from Alpine we went down Alpine to where it runs into Wilson
then and back up. It took us almost a day to do it. But that trip was gone for seventeen
days and what happened we didn’t at the time, but this fellow that we were packing with
was prospecting. He wasn’t looking for mountains, he looking for the ground for signs of
ore. We were looking up in the air for signs of mountains scene. But we’ve paid for his
trip.
HF: Services and guide.
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EW: Yeah, but anyway, we’re paying for his trip. He wouldn’t help us. But anyway the
horses, he wouldn’t keep a horse up a angle where they turn everything loose. But he’d
do, he turned all these horses loose and he will go find them and he came in about noon
with these horses. And we’d have dinner and pack up and pack for about two to three
hours and we not done packing. You taken most part of the day was gone. Well the
horses got loose his horses and he left and went home. And there we were, we had two
horses. Our horses stayed with us. But it’s a good thing because he took our two horses to
go get those other horses and he was gone for two days and two nights. But he finally got
back with them took us out of that damn wild country.
HF: Now Ervin, would this be in areas where, they’ve declared the government set aside
as…?
EW: Yeah, it was in the primitive area but lot it. Yeah primitive area, she is… there is an
area out there is twelve miles and half wide and twenty- five miles long. And they’ve built
no trails no nothing in there. It’s just going remain just like it was. And boy I tell you is
something to go out there and see it. It used to be but I don’t know how it is now. But I
will never forget the time Chary Little. I used to go out with Chary Little, Can Woods,
John Bingham. John Bingham had a great big carbang along his arm when we down the
home Camas Creek. That runs into Middle Ford. We’re done on Camas we hunting deer.
And this arm was just a slob in the neck. I told him, I said John I’m gonna operate on
you. Get ready. So I took and painted his arm with iodine and took short pocket knife and
shot into that. And took a match and lit it, in order to disinfect the blade, and I went like
that, stubbed. Do you know that damn drug thing didn’t even go in, just bounced off in
his arm first time? Well, the next time I told him, I am gonna hit harder and I did and it
went in. And that passed wet clear to the top of the tent. And he made a couple of three
circles and down he went. Boy he had even harder. And just sick and dog and throwing
up and passed off and everything.
HF: But sure fixing.
EW: That night he was going get rid of all that I done to his spine.
HF: It healed good?
EW: Yeah, healed good and everything. Yeah.
HF: Well won’t that be something. Well I guess you had some tremendous experiences.
EW: Oh yeah, all kinds of them.
HF: How about north here up in the Island Park?
EW: Oh yeah, I’ve hunted up there too. Yeah, I’ve been lost up there. Couldn’t tell one
direction from the other in the winter’s day, hunting out from shoes. And I tell you it’s
quite a country. And up around the Badger Creek and Biggs Creek, just the same.
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HF: Big country.
EW: And I was out there with Ramle, Rose Ramle.
HF: Yeah.
EW: I asked him Russ, what do you think camp is? He looked round and he said I think it
is right there. Two hundred and nineteen and so do I. And just sat right up on his edge so
do I. But he didn’t know where it was either.
HF: Well, that is really tremendous. Now before I let you go, I told you that I insist and
going to insist on a couple of three examples of your Upper Snake River Valley humor. I
remember a few weeks ago, when you and Bob Erickson and who was it, Russ Flamm
and somebody else had an opportunity in a rotary club to share a little bit of humor. And
you told a little story about the terrible wet springs and how the mud whole got pretty
deep in Rexburg. Go ahead and relate that one, and any one of two others that you have
that I would like to have you share with me put on tape.
EW: Well, I don’t really, I have heard this people talk about it and tell about here in
Rexburg Main Street one time, there was a hat movement along on the top of the ground
and the guy said, “ look at hat moving” he said yeah. He said it’s muddy and said a hat on
a guy’s head and he is on a horse back.
HF: How about the wind, was pretty up here?
EW: The wind? Well, they said they were really windy place here in Airfield and
Newdale vote to be the windiest place in the country. He was telling about a fellow in the
early days that he went to put a cooper on the horse’s tail and blew the bit out his mouth.
And he said yeah, it is a good too when you take a lot of chain tire around a tree and keep
slapping it. The leaves fall. And then they tell about the cold, how cold it got here in the
winter time, he said there was a fellow who had a cabin over here in the Teton River. Had
a cabin and there was park crack in this cabin. You know what a park crack is. They will
bring something and trade it for something and trade Erickson take and hide it. And he
kept this fellow awake and he tried everything, poison, traps and everything he couldn’t
catch him. So he has been moving around this big rail road spike and set a trap under.
Well he got the rat, the columnar mercury he got a cold that night that the columnar
mercury came down out of the bottom of the thermometer and pinned the rat to the floor
and he got him. But you know what? It pulled the spike out of the wall.
HF: Well, Ervin I appreciate that, it is quite of Ervin Woodmanse and part of Rexburg
and we appreciate that.