Brian Taylor

              Eric Walz History 300 Collection
Brian Taylor – Experiences during
WWII
By Brian Taylor
October 4, 2003
Box 3 Folder 24
Oral Interview conducted by Tammy Cassity
Transcript copied by Victor Ukorebi October 2005
Brigham Young University – Idaho
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Tammy Cassity ( TC): Today is October 4, and we are in Ogden, UT with Brain Taylor,
who is my grandpa, and I am Tammy Cassity. I am going to be talking to him about his
experience during the World War II. First of all, where were you born?
Brian Taylor ( BT): I was born in Farr West, Weber County, Utah.
TC: How old were you on December 7, 1941?
BT: I was twenty years of age.
TC: What do you remember about that day?
BT: I remember being called into an assembly at Utah State University in the main
auditorium just inside { can’t tell} each other to talk about the big event that had been
announced on the radio about the attack on Pearl Harbor.
TC: What was your reaction when you heard about it?
BT: Well, I certainly was surprised. There’s a great deal of turmoil in “ How could they
do that?” The nation of Japan attacking the most powerful nation on the Earth. What
were they thinking of?… shock, surprise…
TC: Now, you were drafted, right?
BT: Well, we signed up for the draft and I have forgotten just what time that began. I’ve
forgotten when I first registered. I could go back in my scrapbook and see my draft card
for when I was first classified as “ 1A.” I’m sure I had registered within the next few
months after that took place. So, I was available for service, of course, as some students
were temporarily delayed because they were students as I recall. Anyway, I was going
on to school. After that I soon would have only one quarter of college to complete before
I’d get my degree. But one weekend when I came home, soon after that, my father
informed me that our bishop and our stake president both had been talking with him and
felt that I ought to go on a mission just immediately. Of course that brought mixed
feelings to me. I had planned on completing college before going on a mission being that
close to graduation. Thought I’d get through with my college and then I’d go on a
mission, however, it was obvious that missionary service was going to be somewhat
restricted at that time. I had mixed feelings too because if I go on a mission I thought,
“ Oh, they’ll label me a draft dodger,” and that’s reality. Some people get caught up in
the spirit of the occasion and are quick to criticize anybody who just doesn’t follow the
pattern that is set down for response to the call of country and so on. So, I didn’t want to
be labeled a draft dodger but as I thought about it further I recalled my patriarchal
blessing had indicated I would go on a mission and so I knew it was in the program of
sometime. Just the question was is this the right time? Reflecting upon it further I
thought, “ What if I should pass this by?,” just because I didn’t want to be labeled a “ draft
dodger,” and then should never have the opportunity of going. Then that would be my
fault that I didn’t respond when the call came from the right source. And so as I thought
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about that I certainly want the experience of a mission and although this doesn’t seem
like the ideal time, maybe that’s part of the test too. So I decided to talk with the Bishop
and a member of the stake presidency who was a former bishop that I should… I better go
back and correct that according to [ unintelligible] it would be Bishop Brown who was
then the bishop. I had forgotten I was thinking of the wrong one. He and President
[ Bott?] was in Plain City. Our stake president was the one who felt I should go so I fell
inline with their advice and talked to the Bishop about accepting a call. Filled out papers
and all.
TC: So, after that, so you went on a mission and then…
BT: So, I was called on a mission to New England and left in April of 1942. Served a
two year mission to New England. Of course that changed my draft status immediately
to 4D, I think it was, for “ ordained ministers” while I was gone, and I kept that status of
course until the war was over or until the mission was over. When I got home, of course,
the draft board sent me a notice that my status was “ 1A” once again. My older brother
who was in the service encouraged me to stay home and help on the farm. So I, even
though my status was changed immediately to “ 1A” I did apply for deferment. I was
encouraged in that also by friends and neighbors here who knew the situation at home.
My father had been having to hire help to get the farm work done and there was enough
work here to occupy both of us, so I applied for a deferment for helping on the farm and
that was disapproved. I was still “ 1A” and so I was called for an induction late in the fall
1944. And it seemed like it was around December that I was told to report for induction.
When it appeared that I was going to be called into service I took a special test for radio
operator hoping to get into Navy and I passed that with flying colors and was notified that
when I went for induction that I was to tell them that I had received this notice and I
would be taken into the Navy and start training as a radio operator, which they still had
need of. So, I went to Salt Lake then on induction day. They gave us physical
examination once again and at that time I did not pass it. While I had been serving on a
mission, a severe varicose vein bulge had developed on the inside of my left leg near the
knee and the doctors who examined me said that will require medical attention if I were
to go into the service and at that time they informed me that they were not taking in
anyone who required any medical procedures. They wanted men who were fit in every
way to go into the service and complete their training and they didn’t need a liability on
their hands, in other words, and so I was changed to 4- F status which was not fit for
service.
TC: So how did that make you feel? Were you relieved?
BT: I had mixed feelings. By then I had conditioned myself to feel, “ Well, I’m on my
way in, I’ll make the best of it and here is some valuable training opportunities coming
and I was sort of looking forward to the challenge there. Put yourself in my condition to
“ you’ve been told goodbye to by the folks at home, neighbors and all they expected you
to be gone and now you’ve got to go home and say, “ I’m a ‘ 4- F’er.” It’s a little bit
embarrassing, I must confess, a little bit embarrassing that I wasn’t able to go into the
service after we had gone that far in getting conditioned and thinking that this was going
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to be a part of my experience. In other words, they had told me, “ We don’t think that you
are needed on the farm that badly,” and so mixed feelings resulted.
TC: How did your family react to the news?
BT: Well, both of my parents were happy about it. And the people in the neighborhood,
this farming community, were very supportive, too.
TC: Really, that’s good.
BT: I didn’t receive any negative reaction from neighbors and friends. I had one relative
who had, of course he had gotten married after, about the time that I went on a mission I
guess he had gotten married and he was farming with his father, I guess the marriage had
something to do with his deferment but he was a farmer. I guess all the rest of my friends
went into the service. I can’t think of any others that were rejected, and I can only think
of the one deferment. But, there was a lot to do in the community. The Church took care
of my spare time. I had all the jobs I wanted in the Church, and was asked for one after
another assignment until my schedule was filled up and so I was back to the farming
business again and of course and having gone on a mission I hadn’t completed my
college. I returned home in August of 1944 and I didn’t go back to complete the other
quarter of college until the spring of 1946. I decided I wanted to complete my degree and
then decide what I what I was going to do beyond that point. Okay?
TC: So, how was it having all of the other young men and your brother gone during the
war time?
BT: Well, my brother said that you could do more at home than you could do in the
service and he was thinking in terms of there’s a lot of wasted time in the military— he
saw it— and first they had training time and they are fairly occupied. He went to the
Pacific Theatre of war and would write home about experiences there. He didn’t criticize
the military. It was just a way of life which he felt I was needed more at home than I was
in the military and that’s the way it came out in his messages to me. He was glad that the
decision was made the way that it was and was very supportive that way. Most of the
young men that were in the service got hometown newspaper that was sent out once a
month by a local group that were trying to support those who were in the military and of
course my picture came out right after I came home from my mission, my picture and my
brother’s picture were put on the front page of the hometown newspaper that went out
and they told a little bit about our lives. That’s so long ago I forgot a lot of the little
details about feelings and so on, but I made up my mind that I was going to be home so
just fell into the routine of working here, neighbors and friends very supportive. I really
didn’t have any communication with friends who were in the military, was real busy with
community affairs here. That took all my time.
Sherri Cassity ( SC- daughter of Brian Taylor): How was it in church meetings and that,
how you would have classes with your age group and there wasn’t an age group there?
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BT: When I got back I was a teacher. I was in the age group where they called me to
be… I could look at my list of callings. You could see that in my autobiography that your
mother has a copy of. But I was called to be the MIA dance instructor, for example,
music director. I remember pulling together a double ladies’ trio and writing a special
arrangement for them to enter into a music contest.
SC: So you must have had a lot of fun with the young ladies.
BT: Sure did.
JT: ( Jean Taylor, wife of Brian): His cousins.
SC: Most of them were cousins, huh?
BT: Most of them in the ward were related, someway or the other. Well, I was in
demand, but it wasn’t long before I was teaching a genealogy class, taking training in the
stake course that was being taught in genealogy. The stake genealogy committee urged
me to take advanced instruction on research work and I got quite heavily involved in that.
It’s hard to remember all the details, just busy, busy, busy.
TC: How did the war affect the community?
BT: Well, it brought in a lot of people. Farr West was just a little farming community
when I left to go on my mission and by the time I came back it was already building up.
The Utah General Depot brought in people for employment— there was the Ogden
Arsenal, Hill Air Force Base— they were all needing manpower and so a number of
people moved in and Farr West began building up and farmers gave up their farm land;
they were splitting these up so more homes would be available for young people who
were getting married and for families coming in. There were a lot of strange faces that
came into the community about that time frame, people that mainly came for
employment. Farr West began to turn from a mainly farming area to one of wage
earners. Just changed complexion rather quickly during the next decade.
Attitude, there was that loyalty in displaying of the flag, those who had
servicemen or women in the service. They had a special flag with a star for each one in
the home that was service in the community. Those were prominently displayed proudly,
you know, and so patriotism was at a high.
TC: So did you display a flag, too, for your brother?
BT: There was a flag in our home because of my brother being in the service.
TC: How often were you able to keep in contact with Uncle Nolan ( Brian’s brother)?
BT: I wrote quite frequently. His letters came to the whole family, of course, but
sometimes he would include a special note for me. He was thoughtful that way. A letter
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went from our home every week to him in the service and my letters were quite frequent,
too.
TC: Were there ever any problems with the postage system, the mail system, were there
ever long periods of time when letters were either lost or…?
BT: Not any problem with mail delivery, as I recall. The main problem was that when
they wrote from an area that was in a combat zone, the mail had to be screened by proper
authority and be sure there was nothing passed on in the process that would reveal any
military secrets, so all military mail was censored. I don’t think there was anything in
reverse. I think ours just went through without any problems, I guess wouldn’t worry
about that. They didn’t want the military people to divulge anything that would reveal
where they were or anything about their plans and they could tell personal things and that
but nothing that would endanger the welfare of them or their buddies.
SC: Were the letters opened, they came to you just taped up closed, or did they not seal
them and then have them screened?
BT: I don’t know whether they had to hand them unsealed to their censors. I just don’t
remember that detail.
SC: You didn’t notice, then, if the envelop was mangled?
BT: I don’t ever remember anything ever being lined out, anything of that type.
SC: But you had heard of that happening somewhere in other families?
BT: Yes, it was a common occurrence with…
JT: Just blacked out if they mentioned anything that affected where they were, it was
blacked out.
BT: I don’t ever remember anything ever deleted from his letters, there might have been.
If it is something that you expect, then you aren’t surprised if it happens. We just knew
he had to be very careful about what was said.
TC: What do you remember about rationing?
BT: Oh, that fun stuff! Gasoline rationing was a difficult thing. Of course, as I
remember we got special consideration on the farm because many people had tractors and
could get extra gas. We didn’t have a tractor here so Dad didn’t get extra gas that way. I
remember the rationing of sugar and household… that affected things. My parents had
always had the practice of doing a lot of canning of farm produce and fruit at home and
so if there were any special given for getting extra sugar for canning they were just right
there at the very moment almost that it was made available. Ladies hosiery was almost
impossible to get.
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JT: When you got your hosiery, if you got a run you sewed up your runner. You didn’t
just throw them away and get new pair because you couldn’t. Everybody came and you
knew, everybody was the same— you had the sewn up hosiery.
BT: Then a lot of ladies came to the point where instead of wearing hosiery they just
paint a line up the back of their legs so you’d think they had a pair of hose that had that
seam. They weren’t seamless for a long time, were they?
JT: I think they were seamed after we got married.
BT: They were usually seamed, so that’s why they painted the distinct line.
JT: They’d paint their legs, put brown stuff on them. I don’t know, I never did do that.
BT: Let’s see, what else was rationed besides gasoline and sugar. Tires. Tires were very
closely monitored, only it was difficult. You had to turn in a tire, I think, when you got a
new one.
TC: Did they use the tire? What would they….
BT: Well, they’d retread it. You could get a retread tire much easier that you could get a
new one, of course.
TC: Well, it was less expensive, too, or were they about the same?
BT: I think when you came to buy it you didn’t think so. They were guarding that
rubber very carefully.
SC: Tell us about rationing. We’ve not been through it, when they rationed it did you
get…
BT: You get a little book of stamps. They’d be sure you only got for so many people in
the household. You couldn’t trade those to one another and there probably was a little
black market stuff going on there. Whenever there’s a control by the government there
will always be a way for some people to get around it and dishonestly get things, but my
parents were taught to live within the law and so they tried to abide by the law very
carefully that way, but like I say if there were any possibility of getting additional things
like for canning they were right there in line with everybody else to be sure that they got
and I think we had stamps for the gasoline also and I’ll give you one experience I had. In
1946, I think it was, a cousin of mine, it was in the Chugg family, one of the grandsons of
theirs came by, he was friendly with my dad, and he wanted me to go with him to Plain
City for something, I’ve even forgotten the purpose of the trip, but when we got down
there, he was short of gas or something and I can’t remember all the details of it. I think
he was short of stamps and needed a gallon of gas to get back home and as I recall I had
the stamps with me for our family and because it was for him the store owner said we
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were being dishonest to try and use my gas for his car. He just really went into a rage
about it. He was a brother to our stake president. And boy, we were just thieves, crooks,
whatever… it was a difficult situation. I didn’t see it as being that bad, but I guess it was
not the way it was designed to be and so we were trying to solve a problem and that was
the only way we could see it to do it.
TC: So did he finally let you do it, use the stamps?
BT: Well, he’d already put the gas in the car.
TC: Oh, I see.
BT: But as I recall he wouldn’t take the stamp that was mine because that was dishonest.
I don’t know how he covered it. It’s just kinda foggy in my mind. Gee that’s sixty years
ago almost.
TC: So true. See, cause I would think that he would see your stand, that’s it’s just the
nice thing to do. I don’t see the dishonesty in it, personally, but I guess if each family
was given only a certain stamps for them and them only…..
BT: Think of it from the government’s point of view--- These stamps are FOR YOU,
they are not for you to share with the neighbors. There is (?) sugar stamps and you are
not to share with the neighbors who may have more kids in the family than
you… whatever the circumstances. They just wanted it right down the line; there’s no
deviation from this law that we passed and you must live this way until relief come in
some way.
SC: Did it ever happen where you would use your stamp to get something and even
though you didn’t use too much of it you’d share with someone else who did need it?
BT: I don’t remember that ever happening.
SC: Not that you would trade stamps, but that you would pick something up and then
trade say they could get certain things cause they didn’t use much of that and you could
get certain things cause you didn’t use much of that and then just kind of trade a product.
BT: I don’t know. Was coffee…
JT: I don’t know, we didn’t buy it. I don’t know.
BT: Well, I was just trying to think. It was awfully hard to get coffee, too, cause that
came from an area that was kinda involved in the war. Seemed like coffee was kinda,
maybe it was just hard to get. I don’t remember its being rationed, course we wouldn’t
be involved in that anyway.
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SC: So, if you paid with stamps, you didn’t rip it out, the book, did the merchant have to
rip it out personally so he could see it was your stamp card it came from?
BT: As I recall, yes, they were very strict about it. Wish my memory were better.
SC: This is just interesting because we hear about all of this rationing and that but we
don’t have a clue as to what it was like.
JT: The book was given to the head of the family, so it would be your dad.
BT: You’d have to go register for so many individuals in the family and sign there are
this many people and then they’d hand you the book or I don’t think they’d hand loose
stamps ever, I think they were bound in little books like the modern postage stamps in
books.
TC: So, when they would give you the books they would first list everyone in your
family and then whoever in your family could go and get it, what you needed or
whatever, or would only certain people in the family could go and buy?
BT: I think the head of the family had to pick those up. I’m sure I never picked them up
for my parents. And by the time we were married well rationing was over so we didn’t
have to get involved in that when we set up a family.
JT: And I never had anything to do with the stamps so I figured it was just my dad that
took care of all that kinda stuff cause he was the head of the family. I never even actually
remember seeing the books.
TC: Did you know any young men who did not return from the war?
BT: Yes, the neighbor right across the street, Joe Markland, was killed in the South
Pacific and my second cousin Donald Taylor was killed in a tank accident. He was in the
Army in Kentucky. And Andy Todd, he lived up here about half a mile, was killed in the
service. I think he was in the regular Army. Were there any others in Farr West? That’s
all I can remember quite quickly.
SC: Was that traumatic?
BT: Well, when that happened, the church would usually have a special memorial
service for the individual involved and then townsfolk would come just like they would
to a funeral.
SC: Did they have their bodies shipped home or did they just bury them…?
TC: Could they choose?
BT: They had them shipped here. Now a cousin of mine, George Lee, was killed in the
invasion of one of the islands in the South Pacific— they never recovered his body. There
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would be a lot of those… those in the Navy say a ship were sunk, nearly all aboard lost,
they’d be many, many for whom there’d be no burial where the family could go visit the
site. I don’t know of any relatives buried say in Hawaii, or they did have war burial
grounds where there’d be numerous burials and their bodies would be left there, course
Donald Taylor died in Kentucky; his body could be shipped home. I’m not sure about
Joe Markland, if his body ever came home or not. I don’t think it did, I think he was
buried in a war cemetery.
TC: How did the families cope with these deaths? Did you see that?
BT: Well, some people are more emotional than others. The mother of this Joe
Markland was inclined to get real upset emotionally over anything that was traumatic so
I’m sure that’d be difficult. He was killed while I was on my mission so I didn’t see
firsthand, but I just know the family being that kind of folks display their emotions
outwardly to a great degree, so I’m sure that would have been a difficult one. With the
Taylors, they’re staunch LDS, you know you hang on to the hope we’ll see him again and
even though I’m not sure it’s difficult for them. That was an accident, that’s a little
different from a fatality from combat. He was a returned missionary and you feel a lot
better when you think people are living righteous lives. There’s really not too much
except the separation of death, that’s bad enough at the best, but your faith carries you
through the difficult times like that when the person was living and just have all the hopes
in the world that everything will be well with them on the other side. This Andy Todd
was a more rounder, too. He was a younger kid. I think he went right into the service as
soon as he could and he was killed. I think his death occurred in the South Pacific, too.
His folks were kinda semi- solid. They’re church goers, not real active but attending
church. That always helps to get through the struggle, if you’ve got a strong testimony.
TC: Would there be times like in the sacrament meeting where something like that where
the main focus was what was happening in the war or was that something that wasn’t
talked about as much?
BT: Well, people would lean on each other and sympathize. Then in the town paper
which people within the ward got also I’m sure as well as it being sent to the men in the
service, they’d be aware of what’s happening in this other family and they could talk with
friends and neighbors and share experience of what had happened, it was part of the
normal conversation. And that would help if people would just talk about things, that
you can help get through a lot of trials if you just put it out in the open instead of bottle it
up inside of you and suffer with it. Most people were willing to talk openly about
experiences of their loved ones in combat, cause there were so many from the
community, there’s a lot of sharing to do.
TC: So, would you say that the war kinda brought everybody closer together?
BT: Yes. Definitely. The spirit of patriotism just like 9- 11 pulls folks together, be
anxious to talk about it and share losses.
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TC: Help each other through.
BT: Sympathize.
TC: So, during this time did you keep up on the news of what was happening?
BT: Oh, yes. Papers might be a little delayed, but it isn’t like getting the news we have
today. Today you hear it almost the next moment after it happens. It’s good news
coverage that way, folks kept up on that and course we had radios and the newspapers.
TC: On these older movie channels like AMC they sometimes will put the movietone
news whenever you’d go to the movie. Is that another way you would see it? Is that a
common way to learn about what was going on?
JT: Yeah, they always had news at a movie in between cause those days they had double
features, the two movies at the same time and they would have the news come in between
them.
SC: So, the news like we’ve seen where they have flashes on soldiers at work, showing
those?
JT: ( nodded yes)
TC: So, what are your vivid memories about WWII? About that time period?
BT: Well, newspaper accounts, course I don’t remember much coming on the TV. That
developed during those years, but newspaper accounts. These convoys— there’s always
concern about convoys of the U boats would come and get in the convoy and sink one or
more of the ships and the attention on the seaboard. While I was on my mission I was in
Plymouth, Massachusetts, they’d have to have shade over the windows at night so they
wouldn’t have any light at all reflected upward and U- boats would see shadows passing
between them and the cities. You’d see street lights always reflected, and those were at a
minimum as I recall, they’d have covers over them so that they’d reflect all of the light
downward and boy they had air wardens for certain districts in the cities. If there were
any reason to believe that there was going to be an attack by a U- boat or anything, word
would be passed and air wardens would come around and inspect the neighborhoods to
be sure that all the drapes were drawn completely. There was NO external lighting
allowed at all. But then since we did live in the city, out here it’s different, out in this
part of the country, semi- protected area in the mountains. But along the coast there was
very great concern about the possibility of attack by U- boats if lights were allowed to
burn, I remember. Those inspections, air wardens that were assigned to a certain district,
they’d do their inspections to insure that everything was followed right to the letter on
those precautions. I was glad that we didn’t live on the seashore for that reason.
TC: That’s interesting, cool. So did it ever make you nervous at all?
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BT: No. I was concerned, but not nervous.
TC: That’s awesome.
SC: So, did they ever practice anything like air raids or anything like that on coastal
areas?
BT: Not in the area that I was in. I was in Cambridge during the war also. In Bangor,
Maine, that was not right on the sea coast but then there was an airbase close by, I’ve
kinda forgot about the situation there. Time erases some of the details. I most remember
the air raid thing in Plymouth because it was right on the coast.
JT: I lived in LA. I never heard any of the sirens, never heard of them having any air
raids.
TC: Did you have to cover your windows, too?
JT: Oh, yeah.
SC: Well, LA is not really on the coast, but it’s close.
JT: Yeah, it’s close. It’s far enough in but it’s still a danger if they could send…
TC: Missiles…
JT: Yeah, missiles.
SC: So, you had to do the same thing. You had to cover the windows and then they
shielded street lights.
JT: Yeah.
SC: Did they have very many street lights?
TC: Yeah.
SC: And they kept those on?
JT: Yeah.
BT: I think they cut those back to a bare minimum when the restriction was on most
heavily.
TC: It’s weird that I haven’t heard of covering the windows or the streetlights before.
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SC: You hear about that more in movies that you watch like Mrs. Miniver, do you
remember seeing that show?
TC: No.
SC: You ought to watch that, Mrs. Miniver. That is a wartime story; they had to keep the
drapes drawn tight so the light wouldn’t shine… You see that in the movies but you don’t
hear too much about people that have lived through that.
TC: Just thinking about that that really happened.
SC: But people lived through this. And I have never heard this before.
BT: Our restrictions of sugar also affected also how much candy we could buy, too.
That was not as plentiful.
JT: We’d get our sugar before the war, penny candy.
TC: So what kind of candy was available, was there certain kinds, or was it just the
amount?
BT: Oh, just smaller amounts. I don’t see where anything was cut back particularly.
JT: They didn’t have near the variety they have now.
BT: Well, they try to take care of the troops first. Their needs were foremost and nobody
could disagree with that.
SC: The supplies were tough to get then the soldiers needed to get them first, to get
strengthened.
BT: Hasn’t this been an enlightening session?
TC: It has. Okay, there’s one more question.
BT: I’ve thought about some things that I haven’t had in my memory for a long time.
TC: So, if there is one thing about your experience that you could tell generations that
didn’t experience the war years, what would it be? What would you want them to know?
BT: Wars are man- made. When selfish people put themselves before the welfare of
mankind then we’re in trouble. It would be great if people could learn to live in love and
peace but it’s the nature of mankind to have somebody to pop up here and there who puts
the welfare of himself or his nation above all others. There’s a way to avoid war. It
would be nice if we could, if mankind were of the inclination to think of others before
themselves. Selfishness and the desire for power are the things that cause the difficulty
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that way. We’d all like to avoid war, but selfish people love it. Selfish individuals and
selfish countries, they want more power and influence in the world or they want property
that is owned by somebody else. It would be nice if we could all learn to live in love and
peace and harmony. There is a way to avoid it but ‘ til we get everybody to share those
same values we can expect continual problems.
TC: All right. Thank you so much.
BT: Oh, my pleasure. It’s kinda nice to do some reflecting upon things that have
happened in the past.