Burton Shelton

              Eric Walz History 300 Collection
Burton Shelton – Life during WWII
By Burton Shelton
February 13, 2004
Box 4 Folder 30
Oral Interview conducted by Aaron Stephenson
Transcript copied by Alina Mower June 2005
Brigham Young University – Idaho
AS: Could you please tell me your full name?
BS: Burton Raymond Shelton.
AS: And where were you born?
BS: I was born in Rigby, Idaho and its November 25, 1937.
AS: And how old were you on December 7, 1941?
BS: Well you do the math. I would have been about 4 years old at that time.
AS: Do you recall what happened on that day December 7, 1941?
BS: I don’t recall anything about that particular situation, because I was too young at that
time.
AS: And since that time do you remember anything about December 7, 1941?
BS: Oh yes, I learned plenty about that, situation of what happened and so forth, I know
that it affected all of us and the situation was of course the bombing of Pearl Harbor and
so forth. It had to be one of the most dramatic and greatest events that has happened in
the history of the world. Of course I didn’t know, because I was so young at the time as
to how that would affect me. But I do know how it affected other people.
AS: Did you ever serve in the armed forces during a war?
BS: No I did not.
AS: Have you ever been in the military?
BS: Yes, I was in the National Guard.
AS: When were you in the National Guard Burton?
BS: It was from about 1958 through 1962.
AS: And where did you serve during that time?
BS: I served here in Idaho.
AS: Do you have any recollection of any of those experiences that you would like to
share with us about the National Guard?
BS: Well my own experiences with that National Guard, I suppose, you know these were
times when I was still trying to deal with myself, with my life, and a young man, I was
still very much insecure about my life and my future. So the national guard was an
invitation for me to get together a little bit, I was able to, I feel like it was beneficial to
me in a lot of ways, some of the people I met were not so beneficial, but that, it was a
good experience for me, for the fact that I was able to learn how to operate equipment,
and learn how to fire weapons and be able to march.
AS: That was great, I am sure it was a great experience. Did you meet any new friends or
make new friends during WWII? Or a little bit after WWII?
BS: Now would this have any effect upon, are you talking about family or are you talking
about friends? What are you talking about?
AS: Right now I guess we can discuss friends.
BS: Well I had something very much in common with a lot of my other young friends
who were my age, a lot of them had fathers who were in the military, and my father he
was drafted twice, but he failed the physical twice so he never did have to serve. But
many of my young friends were not so fortunate, had lots of fathers, who had their fathers
who had to go serve in the military.
AS: So what was your image of Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito during the war?
BS: Well because I was so young, I did not have a whole lot of recollection of that. Of
Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito, of course I have learned a lot about them since, and I
have gained some understanding of what has happen, and I did see some things that were
a direct result of what they did.
AS: What were some of those things that you witnessed?
BS: Well, they, people, as far as the family were concerned, as far as people were
concerned at that time, we were all pulling together, and even as a young boy, I was able
to see that there was a lot of support with each family, every family was touched in one
way or another, they had young men, all of them had young men who left to go [ to] war.
There was no way they could get out of that. So we all had that in common because we
were always waiting for the list to come home, of the wounded and those who died and
so on. And I remember there were a lot of dramatic, there were a lot of emotional
problems with the kids back in those days because of that. Because a lot of them had
people who were close to them that were wounded or killed. And it was an overall thing,
if affected everybody, there wasn’t anybody who was not affected by it. And so I had for
example, one of my little friends she was a girl who I was walking to school with and she
said that my father got the Purple Heart. And of course I thought to myself well what
does that mean? I don’t know what the Purple Heart is you know. Well I found out you
know, that her father had got the Purple Heart of course he had been wounded, and you
know we talked about things like that, and we would have that to talk about, people we
knew and so forth and older people who went to war and so forth.
AS: Can you recall any other examples of how the community bonded together?
BS: Well I think ever since that time, well I don’t believe there has ever been a time since
then that the community has bonded more than what they did at that time, because
everybody was affected.
AS: And where were you living again at the time during this bonding?
BS: Well I was living in Shelley, on a farm outside of Shelley, Idaho.
AS: Have you ever experience any signs of resentment towards the German, Italians or
Japanese, during the war or perhaps after the war?
BS: I am sure there was a lot of resentment towards them, and we used to feel resentment
I am sure at that time, and it is hard to describe the feelings, because I was so young I
didn’t really understand a lot of what was going on, but I did feel the hate and feel the
animosity and hear all of this from family members and others who were older than I, and
express their feelings and so forth about it. And couldn’t help to have some effect upon
us. We were very insecure as children, because we were raised during a time when you
didn’t know that this war involved everybody, and to the point where we were being
threaten all the time you know; and we grew up with that. We actually spent our younger
years under that kind fear, of not knowing what was going to happen.
AS: Being as young as you were, did you ever see any types of advertisements, posters,
around town that talked about the war showed in a glorified manner or anything of that
nature?
BS: Well I don’t remember that so much, I remember all of the news interviews, or the
news documentaries, and so forth, and we would go to the movies, and in between the
movies and the cartoons which we waited for, we would basically see these
documentaries of the war, we would see those all the time, and how they were
progressing in the war, and what was happening.
AS: Do you remember any of the names of the films or television show that you saw?
BS: Well they were mainly just documentaries dealing with the war itself and from
people who were involved.
AS: Did you have a television in your home during the war?
BS: No.
AS: How about a radio?
BS: We had a radio.
AS: Do you recall any experiences listening to the war, or stories about the war over the
radio with your family?
BS: I don’t remember that so much, as I do just regular talking with people, being able to
interact with people and get impressions back from them, reactions.
AS: And it was in Shelley Idaho that you were living?
BS: Right.
AS: What were your reactions to the people living in your community? Were most of
them pro- war or anti- war?
BS: No, and surprisingly all of them were pro, because they were pulling together and at
the time you never thought about being anti everybody was together, they all pulled
together not like later on with Vietnam and that experience, but this war was one in
which everybody supported each other.
AS: I agree, you can see this in Vietnam and as well as today even, there is such a
division among opinions about the war. What is the difference between the wars of our
era right now and the wars of the 1930s and 1940s during WWII? What is the difference
about the American People?
BS: I think the difference was they are more patriotic, more patriotism shown, they pulled
together, the women working at different jobs, many of them to support the war effort
and had to take over where there were no men, and so they had to take over.
AS: I recall reading about that myself, about women going into the work field, did you
know anyone personally?
BS: Yes my Aunt, she went to Seattle and work in one of the defense depots there
building ships, helping to build ships and so on. And she was a non member of the church
and she ended up marrying a sailor, and they went back to Idaho Falls, anyways she work
in a situation likes that.
AS: And what was her name for the record?
BS: Her name was Mary.
AS: And did she ever tell you about her working experience?
BS: She never did as far as that is concerned I never did ask, but I just knew and heard
that she had done this.
AS: I know that some women really prided themselves being like the man, going to work,
and bringing home a salary, did you think she felt that way, or the women of that time
period?
BS: Well I think the women of that time had pride, in knowing that they could support
the War effort, and doing what they needed to do, and so with my grandmother in her
situation she had three sons, who were away who went to war, and I am sure because of
her great faith that she was able to bring those boys home, you know through prayers and
so on and none of them really received any wounds while they were out.
AS: And what is your opinion of Germans, Italians, and Japanese now?
BS: Well the Germans were the one that I was affected by the most because they came
into our community, and it was because we had a concentration camp in Blackfoot where
the German soldiers were placed and they were as I recalled watching them, they were
very, at that time very jubilant, happy, they knew the war was over, they were engaged in
playing sports at the time I saw them, we could only see them from the outside, because
they were behind bar wire and so forth, but they had no desire to escape, and they knew
they were on their way home and they were happy, and so I remember my father, I don’t
know what he went through but he let the commander of the base know that he would
like to have some help. Apparently he learned that the German Soldiers would be able to
contribute to helping out in the fields and so forth. And so I saw I think twelve German
soldiers who were hoed our sugar beats at that time that was really welcome you know,
and the guard who really didn’t seem to be very concerned about them escaping, he went
to sleep on the end of the road while the German soldiers were busy working.
AS: And did you ever see any hostility or bitterness shown towards the Germans?
BS: Well I am sure there was, but in my situation, being as young as I was, I didn’t foster
any feeling towards them, bad feeling you know, now I did have my boss at BYU Provo
who was a German and he was a casualty during the second war in which he was on the
Russian front and he had a grenade explode on his foot and blew his leg off, and he had
one leg it was amputated, and he had to have a replacement, and I remember him
stomping around on that one leg and so this man was a member of the church too. He was
a very good man and I appreciated him, and he was very industrious, very hard worker,
as German people are, and he showed me a true example of what you could do. He was
later on in years, he was actually in his sixties at the time that I knew him, and this was in
the 60s early 60s and he had come to America for the purpose of I think more than
anything else because of the church and he did the best he could he was a good man, he
worked very hard and I just had my impressions of him, I felt like he was a man who
really showed a good example for his people.
AS: You mentioned that he lost his foot, did he ever resent it or did you think he was very
proud that he was able to serve his country?
BS: He never expressed his feelings that much about that. I think he accepted it, realized
that he was going to have to live this way for the rest of his life so he learned to deal with
it. It pained him too, there were times when it hurt him, but you never heard him
complain, but he was a man who really paid dearly for what happened.
AS: When did you first hear about the German concentration camps?
BS: The first contact I had with it, was when we were visiting it, in Blackfoot, Idaho
when we went pass the camp and saw the prison camp, and realized that it was a prison
camp, realized that there were people there, they were being incarcerated, they were
actually serving as prisoners, that was a new experience for us. And doing that right in
our midst, that brought the war effort right in our midst; that brought the whole thing
right there. We actually saw people that represented the enemy and so we were able to
see it as real.
AS: How did the US government treat the Germans that were in the concentration
camps?
BS: As far as I know they treated them great, I don’t think that they had a whole lot of
animosity towards them once they came over, these men were not criminals; they were
basically good people. They were afraid; they did not want to continue with the war, they
were all for going home.
AS: Do you have any recollection the Japanese concentration camps?
BS: I didn’t because we didn’t have any near us, I just know that I had two uncles who
served in the pacific and they had a little experience with that. But you know I didn’t hear
that much about them, my main experience lies with the Germans.
AS: So looking back on that experience, you think it was necessary, that they put them in
concentration camps?
BS: Well they needed to [ do] something with them. Bringing them clear over here and
putting them in concentration camps is about the only way they could handle it. And
maybe they needed to let those people see what it was like here. Because obviously my
friend, the German soldier I told you about who was my boss. That he, I know had had
some contact with the Americans before he came over, a lot of contact with them.
AS: When did you first hear about the Jewish concentration camps?
BS: Well that was sometime later, I didn’t hear about that until sometime later. Then like
everybody else, I was terrified, or I was horrified that they would have such a thing. And
that I don’t think we can even begin to comprehend how terrible that event was.
AS: I agree. Did everyone even believe it? Or were there some who even doubted that it
happened? Because even today there are still some who doubt that it even happened.
BS: I don’t think it really sunk in ‘ til much later, as to what really happened. I think they
kind of kept it under the cover too. I don’t think they really wanted to, they didn’t tell us
a lot about what happened ‘ til much later.
AS: So the first time you heard about it were you in school, was it through a newspaper,
through television?
BS: Through various types of media, through the television and different ways, a lot of
that we didn’t hear about ‘ til much later.
AS: What types of things did you hear, was it just the basics that they were concentrated
in a camp and there were some cruelties put upon them, or was it to the degree that we
know today? That they were slaughtered.
BS: Well, I think that the first time I started hearing about the slaughter. I guess I was in
college at the time. And that’s when it started to first have more of an impression as to
what really went on.
AS: And Burton, how has your life changed as a result of WWII? Obviously you were
young, but what are some of the things you have carried with you from your experience?
BS: Well, I told you about a boss of mine. He was the owner of a service station where I
worked. And I was a young boy; I was a young man about 18 years old. And one of the
people who had been wounded in the war, he came to the service station, and he was a
soldier. And he tried to get a hand off from my boss. And my boss really did not have any
sympathy towards him whatsoever, and one of the reasons he didn’t was because he said
that, see he himself had served as a pilot on a bomber. On a B- 29. And so he had had that
experience first hand, and so he knew what was going on. And he also was wounded.
And so this guy trying to get a free load as a result of the war effort, because of what
happened to him, didn’t sit well with him. And I suspect most of the reason it didn’t is
because he felt like, well you know, we’ve all had casualties to one degree to another.
But he didn’t have any sympathy for that kind of individual who tried to get a free load
off of what had happened.
AS: And how was it to see the young men go off to war, I know there was a lot of youth
going off for the first time at a very young age. How did the mothers feel about that? I am
not sure if you had an experience with that.
BS: Well, I did because I had several uncles who were serving in the war. And I had three
uncles that went, two of them in the pacific theatre, and one was in Europe. And, I
remember them being gone, because I saw their silver stars, there was a silver star for
each one of them on my grandmothers board. And I heard them talking, her and the other
family member about what was happening and so on. And so it made that impression that
they were gone, they were somewhere. And then I remember them coming back, in their
uniforms, and I remember some of the impact they had upon the community. Some of
them were really scarred. One uncle as a result of his effort, he caught malaria in the
pacific. And that was not a good thing; he had that for years afterwards. And another
uncle, he took up drinking as a result of spending time in the army, and it took him some
time to get over that. So there are casualties in my family, to some degree, of what
happened. They all were touched, one uncle, he told us about one experience he had
when his friend bled to death in a foxhole with him. There was nothing he could do about
it. And so they definitely were affected by it. So I remember the impressions. I remember
how I felt. When I saw them come back in their uniforms and so forth, it was a happy
day. To see them come back safely, because many families lost boys in the war.
AS: What did you do to entertain yourself during the war, were there certain things,
certain activities that were not existent before the war that became kind of “ the thing to
do” during the war maybe?
BS: Well, I remember playing army. We’d play it like we were shooting at the Nazis. We
used to have helmets and things that represent the army.
AS: Was that just you in the community, you and the little kids, or were even the older
children involved in that?
BS: That was us and the younger children too. But the older ones they too were very
patriotic. That is the one thing about it that I remember the most is that everyone was
affected by it, they were very patriotic in their desires very much wanting to represent the
community and so forth.
AS: And I know you already mentioned this briefly, exactly how did the war affect the
community where you were living?
BS: In different ways, because there are many different situations. Those who lost boys
were, of course, affected more deeply. They were affected in different ways. Of course,
we all had knowledge of who died. And knowledge of those who went to war. We all had
impressions. We all I think were, I think there was a lot of effort to try to keep closer to
Heavenly Father. Because of it, there was a spiritual unity too as well as a unity among
people in trying to fortify themselves against the war.
AS: Do you recall any personal experience, any particular family that lost a child that
would have been a friend of your family?
BS: At this time I don’t recall a family of any soldier that was killed. But I knew that
there were those who were wounded. But at this time I don’t’ remember.
AS: You mentioned briefly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Do you
remember anything particularly different in the church during the war? Were the fast and
testimony meetings different; were there a lot of talks on war?
BS: Well, again because I was very young at the time, and because my family was
inactive, I didn’t have an opportunity to see a lot of that. But I was able to feel it and able
to see the impressions and able to see what was happening in the community. I was able
to feel it mainly through my friends, people just pulled for each other because of it, they
really supported each other a lot more because of it, because they felt like they needed to
be closer and they needed to help each other, and there was just more effort in helping
each other.
AS: And again you probably touched on this already but, did you have a father uncle or
brother, any direct relative that served in WWII?
BS: Oh yes, five uncles.
AS: Will you share a little bit about these uncles and the experiences that they had?
BS: Okay, well I already told you some about what they did. And they all had different
experiences with it and I have limited knowledge of what they did. But two of my uncles
at least landed right in the very beginning of the war. Then I had one uncle serve in the
merchant marines, and another uncle, the one I told you about who married my aunt who
was a sailor. And then the two soldiers in the pacific as well as the one who was in charge
of the discharges who did that because he was a lawyer. I remember their coming back,
but I think it did scar them deeply. Really in lots of ways I think in many ways.
Unfortunately there’s a lot of adversity and a lot of temptation in the war that affected
them, and affected many of the others. I think for example the community of Rigby was
affected very deeply. And that is where my uncles came from. And they have had a hard
time pulling out of that even today; because of the spirituality which declined because of
those boys being exposed to temptation and having to go through that, and a lot of them
became inactive in the church. They had vices to overcome and so far in that way it did
have an effect on people. And it caused my family to be set back; I think my uncles were
definitely affected by it. And it took them a long time for them to finally get back into the
church or to the point where they felt good, where they were active in the church.
AS: So I guess you would say that even though war can kill you physically it can kill you
spiritually sometimes as well?
BS: Oh yeah, war with all its temptations and so forth, and vices, and I am sure definitely
has, like you said has a spiritual death caused a lot of spiritual deaths. And my uncles
were no exception to that, they had to fight off the temptations that were there. And they
had to deal with that. And even my minor experience with the army, or the National
Guard I was able to see that this was not a spiritual environment.
AS: What were some of the primary temptation that surrounded the soldiers? Is it
alcoholic, morality? Or?
BS: I would say it was a combination of things. Because they were away from loved
ones, because they were in a foreign country where they had no, they often time indulged
in vices, in drinking and so on. Smoking and they really had a problem with smoking
back in those days, they had it much more than they do now. And they had to overcome
that, and many of them didn’t. Many of them had spiritual problems that remain with
them to today. And they had to deal with that, it was not something easy for them, it was
not a spiritual haven. Of course there were a lot of experiences that occurred were in
concede of Heavenly Father was trying to protect them and help them through it. But
Satan definitely had his hay- day with them.
AS: You mentioned your five uncles serving in the war, how does it affect their wives,
their spouses?
BS: Well, they were all single men at the time.
AS: Okay.
BS: And so, I remember the one coming back to his fiancé, and I know it was a great
relief for her to see him come back, as it was a relief for other family members. It was
just something they were happy to see, you know, “ At last we’ve got him back,” but you
know, they could see that these boys had been changed. I could feel that just by looking
at them, that they had been changed. And you can’t even begin to imagine the post-traumatic
syndrome, the post- traumatic situations they had, because of the war effort.
AS: And what are some of the most vivid memories of World War II, experiences that
stand out to you?
BA: Well, because I was so young at the time, I never really… I think probably what is
the most vivid is the impressions that I received from seeing people go off to war, and
hearing about experiences and then of course having those German soldiers come into
our community, you know, and realizing that these are people who fought, who my
uncles fought. And realizing that there were two sides to it, and so forth.
AS: They always say that you can never cut a slice of cheese so thin that there aren’t two
sides. There’s always two sides to the story.
BS: Yeah.
AS: Now, you had mentioned a few of your bosses, that had served in WWII, have you
met anyone else since that time that served in WWII, that have shared experiences with
you?
BS: Oh yeah… well for example we had one man in our community, his name is Van
Hest. He used to be an administrator here at the college. He was a man who had some
vivid memories of the war, and he was in the navy to begin with, and he was put in
charge of operating the radar screen, and he had to make sure that the incoming aircraft
were not gonna, you know, were not German; were not enemy aircraft. And when they
did show on the screen he had to make sure that everyone knew about it, because they
presented such a threat to the ship. And so he was, that was his jobs. And he, later on, he
became a chaplain, and then he rose in rank to a major in the chaplain core. But he talked
about that. But there are, you can still find many veterans, not a lot, but you can find
some who are willing to talk about it, so.
AS: Great. If you could describe WWII in one word, what would that word be, Burton?
BS: One word huh?
AS: It can be a few words if you’d like.
BS: ( laughs)… You’ve heard about Armageddon?
AS: Yes. I’ve heard about Armageddon.
BS: That war involved the whole world, and many people thought it was Armageddon.
And that it could well be, or well been Armageddon. Because of the evil forces fighting
against the bad or the good and so on.
AS: That is an interesting insight. I never thought of that.
BS: So a lot of people thought that they were fulfilling prophecy. Which it could well
have been.
AS: That’s true. And, do you have any other comments or memories regarding WWII
that you would like to share, that you would like to go on record?
BS: Well, my greatest experience was probably feeling that I was contributing my little
part to it. And I think that even though I was very young, I could still feel what was
happening. And I knew that it wasn’t normal. And I knew that there were things
happening that, that affected my whole family. And affected my Grandmother, in whom I
have deep feelings of love for. And she was most affected by it, because she had three
boys, who were in the war. And she was a widow, and I remember how hard it was for
her, but yet, she managed to come through it. And she was actually, had to be a very
strong person to be able to do that. And I think about how we would compare. And so,
and thinking about that and thinking about my grandfather, who died some years earlier,
died even before I was born. That he would have turned over in his grave, I am sure, if he
realized what his wife had to go through because of that war. Because of what happened,
I am sure that he was very concerned where he was at, about her, you know.
AS: Anything else, Burton that you would like to share?
BS: Looking at it from my perspective again. And that is that I believe that there is a
greatness that came out of that war. Greatness of character, because they had to gain
experience, they had experience that fortified them. And yet there was also, like we said
before, a spiritual decline too. It was a way of dividing the wicked from the righteous.
And it just wasn’t the German soldiers, many of the German soldiers were righteous, and
they were caught up in the war just as much as the Americans were. And they had
different degrees of righteousness, just as we did. And some of them, like my German
boss, who was a very righteous individual. And so when it comes right down to it, they
were the victims of people who took it to themselves the power and glory, and who
captivated them, and these were the people, when you come right down to it need to pay
the price. It wasn’t these people who had to serve for such tyrants. You know.
AS: Great. Reminds me of that one scripture, about the wickedness one man can bring to
pass.
BS: Yeah.
AS: Well, that was great, and we’ll end the interview on that then.
BS: Okay.