Irene Lamping

              Eric Walz History 300 Collection
Irene Lamping – Life during WWII
By Irene Lamping
October 6, 2003
Box 3 Folder 9
Oral Interview conducted by Alexis L. Davenport
Transcript copied by Carol May September 2005
Brigham Young University – Idaho
LD: Ok, my first question is how old were you when World War II started?
IL: Eleven years old.
LD: How did the war affect your community and your family?
IL: Oh, it greatly affected us. Every time we went to the store we had to take stamps and
we couldn’t buy any gas without stamps. We had to have stamps for meat and for sugar
and for a lot of things. If we didn’t have our book of stamps we couldn’t get anything
and it was… we spent a lot of our time gathering scraps in alleyways you know, for the
war effort. We bought stamps at school. They had stamp drives at school to help the war
effort and people bought war bonds all the time and I think one of the biggest effects it
had on me— both my brothers went into the service and it was really hard because we all
slept upstairs in two bedrooms and every morning at six o’ cock they would get up and
play their guitars and sing and it was just so… oh it was just awful when they left. You
know, it just left such a void and it was really hard and of course we were worried about
them, you know.
LD: Can you tell me more about what it was like having them gone?
IL: Um… oh, we were just so alone because they used to tease us all the time and we
didn’t like the teasing, but they were great brothers, you know and it was just hard to
have them gone.
LD: What branch of the military did they serve in?
IL: One brother, Bill, served in the Air Force and he didn’t ever leave the country, he
was up in Spokane, Washington, and my other brother, Jim, he spent three years in the
South Pacific. He was with the engineers; with the captain and the engineers and he was
in combat most the time for three years. He went through an awful lot.
LD: How did you keep in touch with them while they were gone?
IL: Just writing letters, we wrote letters back and forth. Do you want to know how we
heard about Pearl Harbor?
LD: Yes, please.
IL: Okay, it was Sunday and one of the girls in Primary was in the hospital so our
Primary class went to the hospital to see her. We came home and we were sitting around
the kitchen table eating dinner and the radio was sitting right there and all the sudden it
came over the radio and it was a real shock to everybody, but we were so young we
didn’t fully realize what it meant, but it was a shock to everybody and everybody realized
the boys were going to have to go to war.
LD: Did the attack on Pearl Harbor cause you to have any prejudices against the
Japanese or other nationalities?
IL: Oh, I’m sure it caused everybody to be prejudiced against them. You know, you
worry about whether there was the urge to hurt you or if there were spies around. You
couldn’t help but wonder, just like right now where we’re worried about the Muslims
sometimes [ indecipherable].
LD: How did World War II affect the activities you participated in as a child; how did it
change once the war started?
IL: I don’t remember it changing much. We still played… well, we didn’t have a T. V. so
we played outside a lot with all our friends, our neighborhood group played together. I
guess the only difference was we spent most of our time gathering scrap and things, you
know. And mother would save all the grease for the war effort in a big jar... I don’t
remember it changing much, you know.
LD: Can you tell me a little bit more about rationing and what that was like and why
they did it?
IL: Well, because there was a shortage of supplies… a shortage of everything and they
had to watch, they had to have enough food for the servicemen and I’m sure I didn’t
understand all about that [ indecipherable] and we were only allowed so many pounds per
person… and meat, they had to cut back a lot on that [ indecipherable].
LD: How did your religious beliefs help you and your family cope with your brothers
going off to war and the whole experience?
IL: We knew that through faith and through prayer that they would be protected. That
was a major, major part of our lives; go to church and do what we were supposed to do,
you know. We prayed for the boys to be protected.
LD: Did you know any young men that didn’t return home from the war?
IL: No, personally I didn’t know anybody.
LD: What was it like to have all the young men gone; did it have an effect, you could
definitely tell a difference— the absence of men in the community?
IL: Oh yeah. There weren’t as many men at church. It affected my sister. She was eight
years older, she was nineteen and she dated a lot of soldiers that were at the camps at
Kearns and different places in Utah, so it made a big difference to her. The only big
difference was my brothers. It was so lonely without them. I remember one time my
brother Bill was supposed to come home on leave and we sat on the front porch all day
long waiting for him to come. We were so anxious to see him and then they canceled his
leave. I’ve never been more disappointed in my whole life as I was about that because
we really wanted to see him.
LD: What can you tell me about the propaganda and the advertisements that you saw… I
know that there were a lot of advertisements that encouraged people to buy war bonds
and support the war effort… was that something you got used to seeing?
IL: Well, a lot of movie stars would go out on tours— war bond tours and that was kind
of neat, promoting it. And it was kind of neat, at school we would have contests to see
what class could sell the most stamps for the war effort and… I don’t remember much
else… except we would have a lot of war bond tours.
LD: What exactly were those?
IL: They’d just come and entertain and encourage people to buy war bonds and Bob
Hope was always in the forefront of everything. He was always getting to know
everybody and entertaining troops all the time. He was such a great guy, you know.
LD: So was it kind of like instead of buying a ticket for a show, you’d buy war bonds
and that was how you’d support the show?
IL: Oh, yeah. We sacrificed to buy stamps and war bonds. We would definitely
sacrifice. Instead of getting a candy bar or something, we’d buy stamps because we
knew it was helping. We were anxious… that’s why we spent a lot of our free time going
through the alleys and gathering up all the scrap we could find because we knew it would
help the war effort. There was a lot of patriotism for the country, even with the little
kids. We all wanted to help the war effort.
LD: When did you first hear about Hitler and the German concentration camps?
IL: Well, we heard about Hitler long before Pearl Harbor, but I don’t remember exactly
when and where everybody was really. It really shocked me when I heard about it. It
really upset me.
LD: Is there anything you found out about when you were a little bit older that you wish
you had known about during the war?
IL: No, I can’t think of anything.
LD: Can you tell me anymore stories about your family and any stories your brothers
may have told you about the war?
IL: Oh, my brother came home— Jim came home with a real hatred for the Japanese
because he had seen firsthand the atrocities that they had committed over there and he... it
took him years and years to get over that hatred he had for them because it was just so
barbaric, you know the things they had done and of course you know, the end of the war
he was drunk when he came home. He had a really hard time getting rid of all that. He
was over the death detail over there, one of them, as well as the engineers, he did a lot of
other things. When he died he wanted to be cremated. It was a terrible experience for
him.
LD: Can you explain more about what the death detail was?
IL: Well, he never did explain… he had to take care of all the bodies and make sure
the… all the personal effects were gathered together and sent home and take care of the
bodies and get the body bags. It was an awful experience. Of course, he got called out a
lot. He had to rebuild roads [ indecipherable].
LD: Well, was he ever wounded in the war?
IL: No, not that I’ve ever heard before.
LD: What kind of experience did your other brother have?
IL: He didn’t go overseas, so it wasn’t as difficult for him. He was a CO of a camp there
and usually it is a high- ranking officer that does that, but [ indecipherable].
LD: So, what kinds of responsibilities did he have if he didn’t go overseas?
IL: Well, he was in charge of a base.
LD: Did he make sure that people got trained to go overseas?
IL: I don’t know… he never mentioned what he was in charge of. A lot of times when
they came home they didn’t want to talk about things they did, it was too painful for him.
LD: Did your brothers change a lot from the time before they went into the war to the
time they came home from the war? Could you really tell a difference?
IL: Well, Bill was a little more mature, but Jim was hardened… that war had made him
that way. He wasn’t quite as soft as he was before [ indecipherable] and they came back,
both of them came back really ambitious; Jim went to college on the G. I. bill and got two
Master’s degrees. He wanted to do what he wanted to do with his life. I’m sure there
were episodes after the war, but not right after they came home. They absolutely knew
what they wanted to do with their lives. They worked hard, were more mature.
LD: What was life like after the war was over? Did it go back to what would be
considered normal or did you still have rationing and…?
IL: I’ll tell you about V. J. Day. Everybody was downtown and riding around the streets
and the euphoria was tremendous… everybody was so relieved now that the boys would
be coming home. When my sister and I were riding around on the running board, the car
tipped over on top of us… that was not much fun, but it was such a happy day… and after
the war housing was really difficult. There wasn’t enough housing for people. I know
that they looked through the want ads in the paper to find apartments for rent. They’d go
down in the middle of the night, you know and get the paper so that they’d have it first
thing in the morning… there was a real shortage of housing, I remember that.
LD: Did your brothers have girlfriends or anything that waited for them after the war?
IL: Yeah, they both got married during the war… they came home on leave and got
married and then Bill had his wife with him up in Spokane and Jim of course didn’t
because he was overseas. There was a kind of urgency with them… they wanted to
ensure they got married before they were sent overseas [ indecipherable].
LD: How old were they when they got married?
IL: Well, I was eleven… Bill was twelve years older, so he was twenty- three and Jim was
twenty- five. Jim was supposed to have a deferment. He was a fireman and the firemen
were supposed to be deferred… he wasn’t supposed to go in the service but they drafted
him and my father said don’t protest it… if you don’t go into the service and serve your
country, you will always regret it, so he couldn’t get deferred and stay home… went to
fight for his country.
LD: Was the sense of patriotism increased in your house as a result of World War II?
IL: It increased everywhere, everywhere… everyone had stars in their windows for
people… for the boys that went into the service and when someone died they had a
different colored star… there was tremendous patriotism. That’s why we worked so hard
to gather scrap metal and everything and even the young kids were anxious to help.
LD: Can you tell me how your brothers’ relationships with their wives changed? Were
they affected by the war, did the attitudes they came home with put a strain on their
relationships or anything?
IL: No, I don’t remember that. They didn’t live where we lived. They moved away so I
wasn’t aware of that, you know.
LD: Did your brothers’ wives stay in contact with your family during the war?
IL: Well, they lived close by during the war. Well, Francis lived up in Montana during
the war, but Eleanor was close by. We kept really close contact with them. I remember
when they came home. He [ name not given] had a son about two or three years old that
didn’t want to have anything to do with him— that was one of the big adjustments after
the war— those that had children that they hadn’t seen for three years, maybe never seen,
they were a real adjustment to the little kids [ indecipherable] had nothing to do with him
when they came home. It took quite awhile to get used to him, so that was hard on them
during the war and after the war.
LD: Did your brothers serve in any other military service after World War II?
IL: No, they both got out after World War II. My husband was in the war and he re-enlisted.
He was in the war— he was overseas. He flew in the Air Force… he flew an
airplane over there, B29, and then when he came home he got out, but then he re- enlisted
in 1948 and he stayed in for a couple of years.
LD: What kind of experiences did he have during the war?
IL: He was on a plane, he got shot at a lot, he was on a crew. I didn’t know him then,
but he was on a crew… He flew over Japan, dropping bombs on Japan. He got shot once;
he got wounded in the war.
LD: How long after this did you meet him?
IL: I met him in 1947 when I was seventeen.
LD: How old was he?
IL: He was twenty- two.
LD: Was he open about his experiences or was he…?
IL: No, he didn’t talk about it much. Most of them I don’t think like to talk about them.
A lot of them were too painful to talk about.
LD: Did any of Grandpa’s family serve in the military?
IL: Yeah, his brother was a pilot. I think the younger boys, the other boys were too
young. He and his brother both served in the Air Force. His brother flew over— he was
in the Flying Tigers in the jungle. He flew over China and Japan a lot… during the war.
LD: Is there anything else you can tell me?
IL: There was a question about the food?
LD: Yes.
IL: We had a lot of soup… my father would get soup and make a lot of soup and a lot of
vegetables, we had a lot of vegetables, a lot of that… I can’t think of anything else. We
had a lot of cake because of the sugar. You’ve got what did we do to entertain ourselves?
LD: Yes.
IL: We had wonderful entertainment. I know when we’d come home from school, the
first thing we would do is turn on the radio and listen to Jack Armstrong, the All
American Boy. You know, it was almost as good as T. V. because we could imagine
everything… we had to hear that every single night. Bob Hope was on in the evening.
He had a lot of comedy shows on the radio, so we didn’t really miss T. V., we had the
radio and enjoyed the imagination and a bunch of us in the neighborhood would get
together every night and play “ kick the can” and “ Annie I over” and “ hide and seek”. It
was a lot of fun. We had a… we dug a hole in a— there were a lot of vacant lots— we dug
a big hole in a vacant lot, in a vacant lot around the corner and then we put tarp things
over the top of it and made a clubhouse out of it. We had so much fun. We didn’t sit in
the house all the time; we just went out and had a lot of fun in the neighborhood. We’d
rake the leaves and burn in the leaves, oh, they were so good. That was when you could
burn leaves. What else did we do? We lived across from the park and every day we’d go
swimming over there and ice skating in the winter. It was an ideal place to grow up.
LD: Did you have T. V. before the war started?
IL: No. I didn’t have a T. V. set until the fifties… what, 1952, 1953, I think.
LD: So, you didn’t even know what it was like not to have T. V.?
IL: Oh no, no, not at all, not at all. One of the hardest parts of the war— of course this
doesn’t really have to do with the war— was on December 7th, 1944 I came down with
polio. I was in the hospital for six months, so I missed a lot of it since I was in the
hospital. But the music, we had beautiful music during the war; “ I’ll be Seeing You” and
[ indecipherable].
LD: Were your brothers able to come home a lot on leave or did you not see them very
often?
IL: Oh no, not Jim. He was over there for three years straight. Bill, we saw him— no,
not very often. He didn’t get a lot of leave, you know, but Jim was over there for three
years straight, we didn’t see him at all.
LD: Were you able to communicate with him pretty frequently?
IL: With letters, yeah.
LD: And how long… did it take a long time for the letters to get back and forth.
IL: Oh, I don’t remember. I don’t know.
LD: What kind of radio shows did they have? What kinds of things did you listen to?
IL: Well, there was “ Shadow Knows”, that was good, and then “ Jack Armstrong”, which
was really good and “ Debra, Mickey and Molly” and “ Jack Benny” and “ Bob Hope”,
which I dearly loved, always loved Bob Hope and what else? I can’t remember. They
had this thing…” Time Marches On”; it was scary, it was on the radio.
LD: What was it about?
IL: It was a news program. “ Time Marches On”. It was as boring as heck… news
programs [ indecipherable].
LD: How did you and Grandpa meet?
IL: Oh, I worked at a café across the street from the park, across the street from my
house [ indecipherable].
LD: How long did you guys date before you decided to get married?
IL: Oh, golly, let’s see, about eight months.
LD: And how long were you married before you had Caroline?
IL: About a year.
LD: You said earlier that men would come home from the war and they would be
uncomfortable with their kids and stuff.
IL: They wouldn’t know their kids. Their kids didn’t know them. Their kids would have
nothing to do with them. That they were strangers to them. In fact, my son’s little boy
would cry when he was around. He would wonder what was that man doing in his house
and would get rid of him instead of keep him by. He was a strange man. It was a hard
adjustment for everybody. It was hard for the men because they were gone so long and
hard for the kids.
LD: Did Grandpa experience any of that? Was it harder for him to relate to his kids
because of the stuff he experienced in the war?
IL: No, I don’t think so. He didn’t go through as much as Jim did. Jim was right in the
middle of the fighting. Bill [ Irene’s husband] was up in an airplane. It wasn’t quite the
same, although I’m sure it was scary because you might get shot down, you know.
LD: Can you tell me more about how… how did your parents act about your brothers
being at war? Were your brothers kind of like heroes in your family?
IL: Oh, definitely, definitely. And it was very difficult for my parents. Very difficult.
Especially my father; he had poor health and it was really hard on him to have the boys
over there. He had a mine out by Delta, a gold mine and the boys helped him work it,
you know and he didn’t have the help for a long time… and that was difficult for him.
LD: When your brothers came home was it kind of weird having them home at first?
IL: Well, they weren’t around that much because they were married. No, it was
wonderful having them home. We had a very close- knit family. We had family
gatherings all the time. We got together once a week on weekends. It was really neat
having them home. Like I said, we were very close- knit.
LD: And you weren’t aware of any of your brothers’ friends dying in the war or being
wounded?
IL: I don’t remember any.
LD: Did a lot of their… did they have a lot of friends that served in the war?
IL: I think most of them did. I think most served, except my cousin didn’t.
LD: Why not?
IL: Because he was a meat cutter and he didn’t serve. But it seemed like the guys kind
of looked down on the ones that didn’t serve, you know. They felt that they weren’t
doing their patriotic duty for the country.
LD: So, they were looked down upon if they didn’t do something to help in the war
effort?
IL: I think that maybe a little bit because it seems like everybody else did so much. They
were I danger all the time, you know. I didn’t ever hear much of anything, but it seemed
like that’s what it was. Maybe I did hear my brothers say something a couple of times.
LD: When your family learned the war was over what was it like?
IL: Oh, it was wonderful, wonderful. Like I said, they had… everybody went downtown
and partied. It was a tremendous celebration.
LD: How did life change after the war?
IL: Well, we had more to eat and more to drink. We were no longer rationed. Oh, I
remember the day I got out of the hospital from having polio was the day my brother
picked me up from the hospital was the day President Roosevelt died. That was a real
shock to everybody. That was in 1945, in April. It was a real shock to everybody when
he died. Had to get the country defended, you know, strengthened and so on.
LD: What did you hear about the atomic bomb and stuff?
IL: On the radio. It was a shock, but we all realized it had to be because it saved
hundreds of thousands of our forces that would have been killed, you know. I don’t think
it was a matter of… I think it was very hard to do, but President Truman… I think he did
the right thing… he saved so many of our boys. They were given the opportunity to
[ indecipherable] and they wouldn’t I don’t think we had very much choice. I think
everybody had to support it.
[ Discussion omitted]
LD: Is there anything that stands out in your mind? What was your general impression
of the war?
IL: Oh, it was a horrible thing, a horrible thing. I remember listening to… I mean
thinking how horrible it was for England with those buzz bombs going off. They went
through a lot more than we ever did and those buzz bombs really bothered them, you
know. To see those people suffering. Did you know about the buzz bombs?
LD: No, explain more about that.
IL: Oh, they came from Germany. They’d just go down the street. They sent them, they
were just like missiles, only they’d come in straight I think and they’d just go down the
street and kill people. Awful. And the British had air raid shelters they had to go to
every night. A lot of them sent their kids out of the country, the young kids, so that
nothing would happen to them. Oh, that was horrible. They had a horrible time.
LD: And the Germans did that?
IL: The Germans did that to the English.
LD: How did they do that? Did they just set them off in the street?
IL: No, no, no. They’d send them over from Germany.
LD: Oh.
IL: Or France. Germany controlled France then. And they’d just send them off across
the channel to England. They were trying to wear the English down so that they’d given
up and Winston Churchill— I remember seeing, I remember he was such a strong man.
Oh, he was stalwart. He kept things together. He was just something else and he had to
be strong to do that because those people really suffered. We didn’t suffer near what they
suffered. You know, we didn’t have bombs over here and so I think it was really hard for
them.
LD: Was the major thing you experienced with the war was Pearl Harbor? Was that the
one major thing you remember standing out?
IL: Oh, that was horrible because people were trapped. And the cowardice of the
Japanese to do that. They had an envoy in Washington that was trying to make peace and
they said that. They were so sneaky [ indecipherable].
LD: Did you ever have resentful feelings towards them? Were you angry at them?
IL: Oh, I’m sure, yeah. I was. I think everybody was. I mean, that’s why they rounded
up all the Japanese and put them in… I don’t know what… there were a lot of good
American citizens in concentration camps here in Utah because they didn’t know who
was for the country and who was against it. That was a hard decision. Like with the
Muslims now, we don’t know who [ indecipherable]. A lot of them were planted over
here. You didn’t know who supported the country and which ones were against it. And
that was a hard thing to do.
[ Discussion omitted].
IL: Well, it really affected us because we had to sacrifice a lot. Why, we couldn’t drive
the car very much because of gas rationing. And we walked to school every day— no
rides to school [ indecipherable].
LD: Did the war affect any of the things you learned in school?
IL: I don’t think so. I don’t remember.
LD: You said that there were stamp drives and stuff at school, so there was increased
patriotism?
IL: Oh, please, yeah. Everybody would save their money to buy war stamps. Like I
said, there was [ indecipherable]. It was a big deal.
LD: What did the war stamps do exactly?
IL: Well, it helped supply and pay for bombs and everything. It helped… The bond drive
gathered more money to support the war effort, so that we’d have more money for the
war. The war was really, really expensive.
LD: Did your family actively participate in providing money for the war?
IL: Oh, I’m sure, yeah, we did. We did. I don’t know how much, but I know that
anything we had we gave… we bought stamps, you know. I’m sure it was spent on war
bonds. A lot of areas… they would take it out of your paycheck; a bond a month,
something like that.
LD: And how much did a bond cost?
IL: I think from $ 18 to $ 25, something like that. I think that $ 35 matured at $ 50 after so
many years.
LD: That’s interesting.
IL: Yeah. We weren’t prepared for that war. So they had to do a lot to encourage.
Because half of our fleet, well a lot of our fleet was at Pearl Harbor. It’s amazing that we
regrouped so fast and defended ourselves. Think of how much land and material that
Hitler had and you know. He had part of Africa. They were fighting down in Africa. He
had a lot of territory. The Japanese had a lot of territory [ indecipherable]. A lot of hard
work— a lot of mothers had work at war plants.
LD: Did your mom work outside the home?
IL: She worked at [ indecipherable] in Salt Lake.
LD: What was that?
IL: [ Indecipherable]. My father was older. He was fifty when we were born [ Irene and
her twin], he was sixty- one when the war started [ indecipherable]. Ever hear of “ Rosie
and the Riveters”?
LD: No, what was that?
IL: “ Rosie and the Riveters”… they flew airplanes in the park and a lot of women went to
work for the war effort.
LD: Did your older sister work?
IL: No, I don’t think she worked, no. She married young. Phillip was in the army.
LD: Did they marry while he was in the service or did they marry afterwards?
IL: No, I think they married while he was in the service [ indecipherable]. Yeah, a lot of
the marriages happened during the war.
LD: Did life change dramatically after the attacks on Pearl Harbor? Did it almost seem
to happen overnight?
IL: Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, people were worried. They didn’t know what was going
to happen. In fact, a lot of people thought they might be invading the country, so they
thought they might have people with a code. They didn’t know what was happening, so
there was a lot of worry, a lot of worry over what would happen next. They got as far as
Hawaii without us knowing about it… a lot of worry, a lot of worry about what was going
on.
[ Discussion omitted].
IL: You’ve got what did I think of Hitler. I think he was the most evil person ever on the
earth. He was so evil. The things that man did— the atrocities. The Jews— annihilating
the Jews the way he did, oh. It makes no sense… he had no conscience at all. That was a
lot of people that he [ indecipherable]. I don’t think there’s anyone more evil than he was.
LD: Did you hear a lot about him? Was he discussed a lot?
IL: Oh, yeah. I’m sure [ indecipherable]. “ Tokyo Road,” it was broadcast to our troops
to try to get them discouraged, telling them that we were losing the war. It was a
Japanese lady that broadcast our troops… it was terrible. I can’t believe one person… oh,
what about Batan death march?
LD: No, I don’t remember much about that.
IL: Horrible. The Japanese… we had troops in the Philippines and the Japanese attacked
there and took all these prisoners and marched them on a long march and called it the
Batan— B- A- T- A- N— Death March and a lot of them died by the wayside; they’d fall
down and they’d kick them to death. Oh, it was horrible.
LD: How did you hear about this?
IL: Oh, we heard about it on the radio after it happened. And they’d take them to
different prison camps. Oh, horrible event, oh [ indecipherable] didn’t realize they were
human beings, treating them like that.
LD: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this.
IL: Well, I couldn’t think of enough though.
LD: Oh, you’ve done just great.
IL: Is it ok?
LD: Yeah.
IL: Well, ok.
LD: I appreciate it very much.
IL: Well, if you need anymore, let me know.
LD: Ok, thank you Grandma.