Hazel Hall

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Eric Walz History 300 Collection
Hazel Hall - Life during WWII
By Hazel Hall
October 21, 2003
Box 3 Folder 6
Oral Interview conducted by Christiana Jensen
Transcript copied by Devon Robb September 2005
Brigham Young University – Idaho
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CJ: Go ahead and introduce yourself.
HH: I, you hear speaking Hazel Hall, who is being interviewed about the war, who lived
at that time and went through some of it.
CJ: And this is WWI, no, WWII.
HH: This is WWII, and I had a husband in the Navy all that time, and I stayed home and
taught school, while my mother tended my young when I finally had him.
CJ: So I’ll just introduce myself, I’m Christianna Jensen and I will be doing the
interviewing and we have, I would probably say about twenty questions that we’re going
to go over. We will explore different parts of what you remember about the war. To start
with where was it you were born?
HH: I was born in Brigham Canyon, Utah it is a little community that is west of Salt Lake
City. That were the copper mine was, men worked up in the mine, there were a lot of
business jobs too. My father was city recorder so he had an office job. But most of the
men, the biggest number of them worked something to do with the Utah Copper mine.
CJ: In what year – when was your birth date?
HH: My birthday was December 18, 1917.
CJ: How old does that make you now?
HH: It makes me eighty- five now, eighty- six this December 18th.
CJ: What year did you get married?
HH: I got – We got married in 1940 May 8th 1940.
CJ: And what was your husband’s name?
HH: Josh, his full name was Joshua Deroy Hawks. But he was known all over by Josh
Hawks.
CJ: Hawks.
HH: H- A- W- K- S.
CJ: How long were you married when Pearl Harbor was bombed? That was December 7,
1941.
HH: 1941, and I was married in 1940 that would be one year.
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CJ: So you were still newly weds at that time?
HH: Yes.
CJ: What do you remember about life? That first year before the war – before the war
ever happened.
HH: I went into this little community, I always lived in, now Brigham isn’t a little a little
place, it had about ten thousand people. But this little community I taught school in it was
small.
CJ: So you were a school teacher?
HH: I went there and there were men there just waiting for the school teacher to come
because there was only about two or three of us, and there was a waiting list to take them
out so that’s basically what we did. I put them on calendars and they got their turn and so
on. I thought a glorious when there [ sic]. I was used to a boyfriend but not that many, and
so it was a good time.
CJ: How did you meet Josh?
HH: He came to where I was staying; it was in his aunt’s house. That’s where we were
boarding this nurse… this teacher and myself [ sic] It was down to two teachers they had
taken part of the children away to school at a bigger school. And Josh came and knocked
on the door, he got in there he said, “ Aunt Grace,” she was his aunt, “ We’ve come to
meet the school teacher,” so they introduced us and they asked us to go for a walk around
the community, it was a nice place to walk and talk. Somehow he came with another boy
and somehow he got my arm and the other boy had this other girl’s arm. At this time I
was quite good looking and of course, I’ve lost all that now. This other girl was a blonde
not real dark and I had dark hair, eyes and eyebrows and had a good shape. She wasn’t
badly shape but not what you would call a curvy shape, and that is all I know about it.
CJ: So you were married a year before WW II started?
HH: Yes.
CJ: You said that you were a teacher.
HH: Yes.
CJ: What kind of job did Josh have?
HH: He was going to school to try and get his completed because I got my degree in three
years.
CJ: What was he studying?
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HH: He was doing it in elementary education, I mean in secondary education, but finally
he switched over to administration. He taught and he managed the largest elementary
school in Box Elder County. He was the principal and he was the principal of that school
all his life till he died. Well not till he died, till he retired. He retired one year before he
died and that was the end of him.
CJ: What do you remember about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
HH: I remember standing up in my mother’s house— by then my little boy was born and
my mother was tending him— and I remember standing there and looking out the window
and the radio, he had a radio. We didn’t have televisions much. And they announced the
bombing of Pearl Harbor. I remember how it struck me, it worried me to death, and
basically I was devastated.
CJ: So when you say worried and devastated, explain that a little. What worried and
devastated -- what worried you? Why were you devastated?
HH: Because of that war, I’m a very nervous person; everything worries me. So
something like that would worry me doubly.
CJ: The effect that it would have your family or if it would affect your home. Worries
like that?
HH: I mostly took them to myself, how it would affect me?
CJ: Really, so your personal point of view.
HH: Yes.
CJ: So what did Josh think? What do you remember of Josh’s reaction to Pearl Harbor?
HH: Josh didn’t worry at all, this was the type of person that kept everything to himself.
If he worried you didn’t know it. ( Section not transcribed)
CJ: We talked a little bit your husband and how he went into the military. Did he want to
go in or was he drafted in?
HH: No he volunteered. ( Section not transcribed)
CJ: Remember back to what you thought about the war. And you said that Josh really
didn’t have much of a reaction to it.
HH: He didn’t have any reaction to it.
CJ: But he felt that he needed to volunteer for the military.
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HH: Well he didn’t want to get into the army. That’s why he volunteered, he knew if he
volunteered [ he] could get what he wanted, but if he didn’t volunteer he’d have to take
what they gave him.
CJ: What armed forces? You said he went into the Navy.
HH: He went into the navy. There was the Navy, Army, what was that one, the white,
forward and aggressive.
CJ: The Marines.
HH: Yes the Marines.
CJ: Did they send him away for training?
HH: Yes.
CJ: Or did he have a lot of knowledge already?
HH: They sent him away for training; he enlisted before he got any training.
CJ: Where did he go for training?
HH: He went to California.
CJ: Is it in San Diego?
HH: Yes, San Diego. What was the name of that one?
CJ: That’s Balboa Naval Base.
HH: That wasn’t that, but he was there.
CJ: That is what it is now. It could have changed.
HH: He went to California and he spent six months there to get one degree and then was
sent to Keyport, Washington to get an advanced degree in torpedo work. Then was the
mechanism of it, in putting them together and tearing them apart. Seeing, to get them to
guide themselves so they can target what they wanted and so on.
CJ: What kind of skills did he have that made him good at that?
HH: He was just good in math and it was a math skill that they picked him out with.
CJ: They directed him.
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HH: And the mechanical, he could put things together – puzzle things.
CJ: A lot of puzzles and math.
HH: Well I don’t know there was problems but I don’t know.
CJ: What kind of money was he offered? What was he paid for his service?
HH: He was paid $ 25 a month and I was paid $ 25 a month.
CJ: You got a check from the Military too?
HH: Yes from the Armed Forces.
CJ: Now what was the difference between that money that he got from the military, and
the money that he made before the military?
HH: Well, you can’t compare it now because wages have gone up so. I’ll just say that he
was making top wages at that particular time. And it was in a skill that paid … in
construction and that paid a good salary.
CJ: So you felt that there was quite a bit of loss.
HH: Very much.
CJ: So with that loss you felt like you need to move in with your mother?
HH: No, I did that so she could tend my baby and I could teach school.
( Technical Difficulties)
CJ: So with the money that you got from the military and the money that you made
teaching, did you feel that you made ends meet?
HH: Oh yes.
CJ: So you had plenty.
HH: Yes I had plenty of money. I had a brand new car.
CJ: You said you had a child. Did you have your child by the time he left for the Navy?
HH: Before, he was born not long before he left. The child was born before he enlisted.
Because he was going to use him as a write off and then he decided he would enlist. He
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thought he might just put into the Army or put any place but he wanted the Navy or the
Air Force or something.
CJ- You said that since he volunteered he was able to get what he wanted but if he would
have waited a week he would not have had to go.
HH: Well they lowered the standard, the war was edging down and they didn’t need that
many men, that’s why they would not have needed him. They didn’t like men with
families because they cost them more, because they had to pay the wife $ 25 dollars a
month. I guess if you go all over the United States that could mile up to something.
CJ: Now what did you think of that, knowing that if he would have waited a week he
wouldn’t have had to go.
HH: I was very bitter in my mind; the loss of some companionship. Then when you go
out… Right when you went in the war was ending then and were just going our
gradually. Right then as he went into Manila. He wouldn’t have had to even leave if he’d
just waited. They didn’t take any more entrances into the Navy. The Armed Forces had
enough men. So they weren’t drafting any more.
CJ: You said Manila which is in the Philippines, is that where he was stationed?
HH: Yes.
CJ: Do you remember him saying anything about the Philippines? What life was like
there? How he lived?
HH: Yes a lot.
CJ: What… Give me some detail on that.
HH: Well, before I forget this schooling them him quite a bit credits for the school that he
had for the school that he went to [ sic]. The one in California and the one in Keyport,
Washington. They gave him credit for that, and he was quite happy about that when he
began to want to go in to the administration of a school. But for that time he was quite
bitter, they came around once and wanted him to go to another school since they didn’t
have what he went to school in. They wanted him to go into Shore Patrol School, he said,
“ No, I will not, I went to that other school and had top grades and it did me no good at
all. I will never go to another school.” You had to volunteer for extra things.
CJ: So he wasn’t able to use any of the training he got with torpedoes at all?
HH: No, not any, never, because they didn’t need any when the war was ended.
CJ: What do you remember about the Philippines? Do you remember any about that,
what thoughts he had?
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HH: Yes he wrote a lot about that.
CJ: Like what?
HH: Like, the girls that chased them to death.
CJ: Oh really?
HH: Yes.
CJ: The Philippine.
HH: I could tell you stories that you would want to put on tape.
DJ: Do you want to give me one conservative one?
HH: I don’t have conservative. The only ones I have are not conservative.
CJ: But these women would chase the service men?
HH: It was just advances that they would make. One man that he quite liked he thought
he got sex diseases. What are the names of those two?
CJ: Like Chlamydia and Gonorrhea?
HH: That one right there.
CJ: Gonorrhea, did that go around a lot through the service men?
HH: Well no, yes some of them it they were the type that went with the girls. You were
sure to get it.
CJ: But Josh wasn’t like that?
HH: Heavens no he said he never got hard up enough for that.
CJ: Well that’s a good thing… if he didn’t run around with girls in the time that he did.
What did he do in the spare time that he had?
HH: He had a good boy friend with nice morals and everything.
CJ: A gentleman friend.
HH: They bought a club together, a club that they got a lot of money in it but they could
send it over, all of the money that they tried to send first it was taken. So they just sold it
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finally. And he had that for a while – then he had to go shore patrol for a shift every day.
And he and this guy were on the same shift and that’s how they got acquainted. When
they were guarding that these women would come around and wanted to have some fun
with them and they didn’t want to, they knew what the price was. So they didn’t just told
them to get away and stay away. They said you don’t need to do anything well do it all.
CJ: What did shore patrol…?
HH: Shore patrol was to watch the Japanese to see that they don’t infiltrate.
CJ: So just kind of a defensive.
HH: Yes defensive.
CJ: Was he ever an officer?
HH: No, well he went to school he did go to officer school. They had him in this other
school.
CJ: So what rank was he?
HH: I don’t know, a low rank, but it was a rank.
CJ: Seaman or something like that.
HH: Yes, a seaman.
CJ: You talked a little bit about how he guarded the officers. You said the uppity ups?
What did he think about that?
HH: It was very bitter to him.
CJ: Why?
HH: They got nothing and the officers that knew nothing got everything. But the people
that were schooled and knowledgeable in the field got nothing.
CJ: So, what’s nothing, they didn’t get hot water?
HH: Well, later on they did, but right at first they gave all those things to the officers and
it took a little while to get things fixed around. And the Japs they were just living by the
skin of their teeth and trying to hold that ground and they didn’t care what they had. They
didn’t care if they ever bathed or anything like that. But later on they had good
accommodations too but it took a while to get them.
CJ: You made mention that Josh would send you things. He would send you stamps?
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HH: He would send money but it was, I don’t know if it was Japanese money or what.
But it was in paper denomination.
CJ: Kind of like a voucher or a ticket.
HH: A ticket, I guess, and voucher I’d say was more like it.
CJ: What were you able to get with a voucher?
HH: Nothing because it wasn’t good in the United States, it was just good over there.
CJ: Were you able to convert it at the bank?
HH: No, they didn’t want it at all because they had lost the war so it was no good
anymore.
CJ: What about gas stamps or food stamps?
HH: I think he got most of those in the Navy before he went over seas and that would be
California and Washington. They gave him so much beer a day and Josh would sell his
for stamps. They would give him their stamps for his beer.
CJ: Oh really, he would send the stamps to you. What were you able to get with the
stamps? What were you able to purchase with that at home?
HH: Gas was all I wanted, because my mother had plenty of food. Those that didn’t have
plenty, they had a lot of little kids they probably needed all the money and food too.
CJ: Did you keep those food stamps or did you give them to people that needed them.
HH: Stamps, I don’t know. A lot of things didn’t even get here that he would send.
However, he sent me a very beautiful ring he had just sent it in a letter; I don’t know how
it ever got here. ( Section not transcribed)
CJ: You said that they were able to get things less expensive there?
HH: Yes, they would pawn anything then you could go buy it at the pawn shop.
CJ: Oh really, very inexpensive then, and he would try to send things home. How was the
mail system?
HH: Well they censured them, the people that worked in the mail department was
probably able to get away with most of it. There was no honesty in any of that stuff. They
would just take whatever they wanted.
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CJ: Have we talked about anything that has sparked any other memories that you would
want to bring in to this conversation now?
HH: Not really, you look like you’ve covered it quite well.
CJ: We’ve still got more to go, I just wondered if there was anything that has come up in
your mind that you think is pertinent?
HH: No.
CJ: We talked a little about conserving resources. Like people that didn’t have things,
like if there was a shortage of toilet paper or nylon. Were you at all affected by rationing
that went on?
HH: No, I didn’t have any need to buy anything. I don’t – what my mother, she seemed
to set a very good table with very good food.
CJ: So, you feel that you were well prepared before hand.
HH: Yes.
CJ: You had all of the food that you were in need of, and paper items.
HH: There was so many people in Brigham when I was up there that were poor, you
know that didn’t have a lot to begin with, but we were a family that had more money so
we didn’t suffer like some of them.
CJ: When you say that some of them suffered what do you remember their life being
like?
HH: Same thing like it is here, you have one family, one parent family and they could
earn a living they had to be helped by the government, by state or the country or
something it wasn’t national help. But if their husband was in the Armed Forces then you
got enough. If you had a lot of kids then you got a lot of money… so much for each child.
It was fairly good would come out, because they weren’t used to that.
CJ: Do you remember anything about rationing? Like if they would ration gas?
HH: That is the only one I could remember is gas because that was the only one that I
was concerned about.
CJ: Would they limit how much you were able to get? Or did they just raise the price so
you weren’t able to purchase?
HH: No, the price was governed by the government.
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CJ: Controlled?
HH: Yes, controlled.
CJ: So how did they ration it? Do you remember how?
HH: No, the men that owned the service stations were just told the price and it was
governed by them.
CJ: How do you remember the war affecting your community?
HH: No.
CJ: There wasn’t an effect on it?
HH: It wasn’t a little community. It was a big place where you didn’t know who was
have what really.
CJ: Now what about your neighborhood or people that you were involved with in church?
HH: The only people that were involved with were the people that lived right across the
street was an apartment house. My family had a lot of property and had one apartment
house and then we had little houses that were single that my father purchased for an
investment we got quite a bit of money from the rent, because things were cheaper.
CJ: So did the war coming in affect his investment at all?
HH: Did it affect who?
CJ: Your father’s investment.
HH: No not at this time.
CJ: Did it later?
HH: No, we had a flood and we had to sell them all to the copper company— they bought
them.
CJ: You said that you were a schoolteacher and that was your employment during this
time.
HH: I taught the fourth grade.
CJ: Do you remember much of an effect that the war had on the students?
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HH: No, I don’t because I don’t know if it was on at this time. It might have been over. I
don’t know but after it was over they kept Josh there a year because he was late getting
over. You got home by being in battles and having time. Not going to school didn’t give
you any priority because that was ( indiscernible) build you up it gave up points and so on
but that didn’t help you get out of the war.
CJ: After it was over what did he do for that year?
HH: He finished his schooling and was principal in the school I told you about.
CJ: So was he in the Philippines for an extra year?
HH: Yes.
CJ: A year afterwards and there wasn’t any war going on for that year.
HH: That’s what made him bitter.
CJ: Did he help in the community rebuilding or what did he do in that time when the war
was over?
HH: He was on shore patrol and then when he wasn’t there he could do what he wanted
and he organized this club. The building was already there -- they had music where they
danced and a place -- a bar where they could eat and so on.
CJ: Just a kind of place to relax?
HH: Yes.
CJ: Did they serve alcohol or was it a conservative place?
HH: I don’t know because he wouldn’t tell me probably.
CJ: Did the war affect people that you knew at church? Do you remember anything that
was brought up about it in church? Any service effort that the church did?
HH: I went to church there but I don’t remember anything even mentioned, because the
war was over when Josh was put in. When he landed, he was in school for two years and
I lived in San Diego then.
CJ: With him while he was training?
HH: Yeah, well yes. He could get home weekends but he would be done during the week
for school.
CJ: What was life like in San Diego? Was that on the military base?
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HH: Yes, we rented an apartment just in town and I had JD there. We had a radio and I
listened to that a little bit.
CJ: And he would go away and come back on the weekends. Now that the war is over
and that there has been some time pass and you have been able to live your life -- when
you look back on the war what feelings do you have about it?
HH: I was rather bitter myself.
CJ: Why?
HH: To think they would cut us out of all the money and time together.
CJ: You mentioned being lonely.
HH: Yes but I had DJ. I wasn’t too lonely when I had a little boy and he was so bright
and cute and he kept me really on my toes.
CJ: What would you have changed about the whole experience?
HH: Not have it – that’s all.
CJ: Why do you say that? Just having him home?
HH: Well yes, I would like to have liked to have lived a normal life like others did.
CJ: Is there any other comments you want to make?
HH: No not really.
CJ: All right I think we’re done.