Oral history interview with Alex Lott

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Interviewer: Gloria Throne' ;
Interviewee: ' Alex Lott • '
Date: July 22, 2004
Place: 1835 N. 800 W., Orem, Utah , , : ...
GT: [-], Folk Archive at BYU, and Kristi Bell's the head of that, and there's an archive of folk
culture out in D.' C. in the Library of Congress, and that is looked over by the American
Folk Life Center. And that's been going for over 25 years, and the idea is to capture the
Folk History, the stories, the customs of the people, you know, real life. ,.
AL: Well, I've been right here in this little area for over 50 years, even though I was born in
Nevada, so I've been here along time.
GT: Good. And the focus of this particular project is the orchards, and the fruit, the
' importance of the orchards to the people,, and to their culture, and the fruits, and the ways
they preserve the fruits, the.:. way they utilize them, the way they work into their
celebrations, that kind of thing. . '.. •• -
AL: Well, I picked four lug of apricots this morning, so. "
GT: [ Laughs] So, just to start with, so we'll have the record on the tape, if you could give us
this'biographical information, then we'll have that down on the tape.
AL: You just want me to read the answers to these?. \
GT: . Arid I'll say that today's Thursday, July 22, and this is the start of an interview with an
orchardist, and his name is Alex Lott. And we're at his home in Orem, Utah. And I'm-'
Gloria Throne. I'll be the interviewer, and this interview is being done in connection with
a project sponsored by Brigham Young University and . the American Folk Life Center,.
:-. and we're documenting the history and traditions of family- run orchards in Utah Valley.
. And the recording engineer is Russell Bac- Bachman. '
UN: " Bachort. ' .:, ' " . " • • -
GT: . Bachort. And the photographer, when it comes time for that, is Harlow Clark. So if you
want to just give us that biographical info.
- AL: . As she mentioned, my name is Alex Lott. I live in 1835 North, 800 West, in Orem, Utah;
: My wife has the email.' My date of birth is 1/ 25/ 40. Place of birth is Kennecott Copper
' Mining Town, McGill, Nevada. Current occupation:' self- employed. Anything else you'd
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• •• l i k e ? • ' ' • V . - ' • :•: ' - ":
• GT: That's fine. So, when you grew up as a child, you grew up in Nevada? And was your-family
engaged in any kind of farming at that time? •
AL: The Valley floors were over 6,000 feet-. Nothing would grow except hay and weeds. And
it was just desert, and mountains; and all we did was play, and we had a wonderful
swimming pool, and all kinds of heat life. Came in here to Utah, and it was just like- black
to white. I mean, I had to go to work. - My dad contracted cucumbers, and we picked
cucumbers, ' til the ends of our fingers went off,, and we picked raspberries, and. we picked
strawberries, and f we picked cherries. We'd go around to each person's orchard, and we. '
would pick, and then when we would get done, we'd go jump in the irrigation ditch and
swim. Clothes on and all. We'd just have a nice cool- off time. It was a wonderful time, '
that way, but cucumbers I did not like. They'd just eat the ends right off. They'd be so ,
sore. , ..... . • '-.
GT: Because they have those little-
AL: Stickers, and : after you've picked so" many of them,. it just takes the skin right off. Dad
raised chickens, and he raised, you know, he had a - few animals like that, that he raised,
and he had three or four acres, just like me. So when it came time for me to get married, I
decided, that's the first thing we did, was bought a piece of land.
. GT: And a bunch of cucumbers? [ laughs] . , • •
AL: Uh, just enough to eat, thank you.; Just enough to eat. .
GT: ' When you moved here with your dad, what town did you move to? -
AL: Right here. Just barely east of State Street. I mean, not more than, a mile away. My mom.
still lives there. Took him five years to build a home. When he moved in, it was paid for.
' ' And this whole area, if you know anything about the Mormon culture, it's divided into
, ' something they call ' wards.' And right now, just on this little block, there's about five
wards, but when I moved to this- area, one ward went from mountains to the lake. From •
Lindon to Clover to 800 North,' the one that goes up Provo Canyon, the one ward. So it's
just totally changed, and it was all fruit, you know,' and the streets were not oiled, and
ditches running everywhere, and of course we still have pur ditches, but most of them are
', underground now, which is nice because it saves a lot of water. . ••'
GT: So do you have a ditch that if you- . . •
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AL: Absolutely. In fact, I've got to interrupt you in twenty minutes and have my boy go turn '
the water. And so it comes to me today. . •
GT: • Yeah. Should we set the timer for twenty minutes?
AL: I'll watch it. , ;
GT: I've got one. [ Laughs] It's in the car, though.
AL: Nope, it's fine.
GT: So when you were growing up; when you were picking the cucumbers, and, did your
mom of dad preserve any of the [-]? •
AL:- Absolutely everything. We canned everything. In fact, I do what my parents did. I raise
two beef on this place, we've never spent more than.$ 150 a month for food, because
we've raised corn and potatoes, and cucumbers, and melons,' and beets,, and tomatoes, and
we can them. My wife makes a wonderful thing out of tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, and
onions, and we turn it into spaghetti sauce, or we turn it into taco sauce, or we turn it into
whatever, you know, with a little powdered things that you can open up, and then this is
your filler, and have her on hamburger, have her on- you know, we just, it's nice to be
semi- independent, you know, if you will. And I have enough ground left here, that if it
ever got rough, the whole neighborhood could grow something.
GT: So, you mean they let you have cows right here in the'town?
AL: Because I have what's called a Grandaddy Clause. If I getrid of them, I can't get any
back. But before those two go, I'll have two new ones t'oreplace them.
GT: What kind are they?
AL: We usually get Holsteins, but right now we' have Jerseys, they're just down here on
Geneva Road.
GT: So lots of cream, huh?
AL: No no no: It's- steers. I raise my meat. I'm not going to milk a cow. No, Fm not going tp
. b e tied down. I won't even have chickens like my dad did: I'm not going to be tied down
gathering those eggs and feeding those chickens. I lived over here on State Street as a boy
here, cleaning chicken coops for 25 cents an hour. No way, no'way! Stinky, smelly!
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' Wonderful manure! No way! Not me! [ Laughs] I've copied them as; f ar" as I could go, but
I'm not copying everything I had to do. [ Laughs]
GT: We'd like you to focus mostly on the fruits. '. . .
• AL: Okay.
GT: If you could talk about the fruits that you grew with your family of origin, your mom and
dad- .
'.- AL: They were not orchardists. They came from Southern Utah. - •
GT: So when they moved down here-- . •
AL: They planted some trees,, and started to- experiment, about two of everything: two
peaches, two pears, two apples, two- • •
: GT: Now, how old were you? .
AL: , Thirteen. I was a teenager. ; '
GT: • So you still had experience, as a child, putting up different fruits, so tell us about those
trees, and what you put up, and how you ate them. . ..
AL: Yes. We make applesauce, and we dry apples. We can sweet cherries, we can peaches.
That's our favorite. We can pears, can apricots. Jam with strawberries, jam with
raspberries, jam with peaches, and jam with apricots. Alot of times we would take
rhubarb as a filler, ' cause some people don't like the seeds in apricot jam. If you take
rhubarb as a filler, or apricots as a filler, and put. a cup or so of raspberries, it tastes just
like raspberry jam without the seeds. ; And my wife doesn't like the seeds, so we use
something else for a filler. And very cheap. This year we have a lot of apricots, and so
we've already made a great big batch of raspberry jam, but it's really apricot jam. that
" tastes like raspberry jam. •
GT: And how do you get the seeds out of that [-]?
AL: Well, instead ofhaving six cups of raspberries, you've got 90% apricots in that jam, and '
only one little tiny cup, and so they're scattered so few- 1 mean, there's a few seeds, but
there's not many.
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.' GT: Just a few- -"• "'
AL: We get the color of the raspberries, but we don't get the seeds.'
GT: Mm hm. Now do you dry any fruits? • ;
AL: We dry mainly apples. We like to dry the wine saps. We make applesauce, but we like
apples dried.- ' v.' -
. GT: How do you dry them? '.-
AL: Cut them into quarters with skins on. Oh no, ahh, no, we peel'them. We've done it with
skins on, but we peel them and just cut them in quarters so they're nice, big- and we dry
them j u s t ' t i l they're chewy/ We don't get them- .'
GT:; In the oven? ~ ' ' v """ .'• ...
AL: . Oh no, we have a layereddryer, about seven layers. You just put them on there. Use the
same thing to make jerky, too. Mmm, good jerky. Oh, tasty. Oh, deer meat jerky. Oh, oh!-
Good stuff. "
GT: • How do you store your dried fruits after you dry them? .
AL: In mayonnaise jars that are plastic or whatever, you know, that once you have these jars
like that, big wide mouths, she puts them down in those.
GT: So. you can close them up tight and there's- nothing's going to happen to them? ;
AL: No weevil gets in them. And sometimes if she has room in herTreezer, she'll put them in
jars like that and stick them in the freezer. Bring them out and- let them thaw. But, they
keep really quite well. Especially if they're in the jars.
GT: Do you soak thosein anything before you- '
AL: No, and I wish I knew what to soak in apricots, because apricots always turn dark.
. They're not the nice bright ones like you find in the store. Everything else, I won't trade •
anything in the store for what we make. Homemade bread — it was a treat for my kids to
ever get a loaf of boughten bread because my wife always made bread. At eleven cents a
' loaf, I mean, where do you- buy. them in the store for eleven cents a loaf? So, my wife
. makes from scratch, and has our whole married life.
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GT: That seems to be something people are- . '
AL: Are getting away from.
GT: - a lot of people are proud of.
AL: - Oh yeah, we're proud, very proud of it. We still do it, and our kids are picking up some
things. They don't do it all, but they, I mean, we've had four kids over here canning, so
yeah. We're doing it. • - , •.
GT: So, when you say you've had them over here canning, do you mean you kind of have like
canning parties? ' '
AL: Yeah, kind of.
GT: Tell us about that. .
AL:'' Well, they just come in, and my wife, well I. don't do it, but my wife and daughters just
get there and put things together and go to work, and they take the pits out, they just do
the regular canning together. Talk and visit, have a good time. We don't have a party
doing it. My wife's. kitchen's too small for more than two or three people at atime. It's
long and skinny, but it's not very wide, and so she doesn't like crowds in there, but she
just gets a different day with a different child,, and away we go, and we just have a good
time. .
GT: So you do all the canning indoors? In your regular kitchen? - . -
AL: We do it here, or downstairs. We do the- now, see, we got lazy with pie cherries. And pie
' cherry juice is such an expensive drink that we know steam them like you do grapes.
Looks just like Concord grape juice, so we have to label it, ' raspberry,' I mean, ' pie
cherry.' And we don't have to pit them, we don't have to do anything. We just juice those
things. Arid we get gallons. I mean, ten pounds of pie cherries gets us two of those great
big half- gallon jars. Two and a half of. those clear full: And she's put up a bunch of those.
. And- . " " '
GT: You know, before I came down here, I never heard of this kind of juicing where you're
distilling the juice off-
AL: Really, yeah. Just steaming it out. Like you do- that's what you do with Concord grape.
You can't get the juice out if. you don't steam them. That's the way the big people do, you
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know, the professional people do. They steam grapes. We steam our cherries, too. Unless
you want to put up something for pies. Then you have to pit them, and we put up a. few
. for pies, but we put them up, we juice them.
GT: H. . . . . .:• , . . '
AL: Excellent. I mean, we make pie cherry jam, and you put sugar with that, and it's a tart
sweet,- but boy, it's just good jam. Oh, it's just excellent jam. I ought to let you taste some
of the pie topping. I've got some in the. fridge here. Good stuff. •
GT: That won't be hard to convince us of. [ Laughs]
AL: Okay, And then I had a good neighbor over here, where all, this church is being built, and
these new homes are going in, his father taught me how to bud fruit. So I've got.
nectarines on peach trees that I can show you out there. And I've'got yellow apples on red
apple trees, I've got Golden Delicious on Red Delicious, and I've got wine saps on
different- 1 mean, I've got, I had a sweet cherry tree come up half in root stock. Little,
worthless, junky pieces of fruit. So I budded it all over, and now I have a whole cherry
. . tree again. •'• ' .
GT: So that's what you call'grafting?'
AL: No, no. You graft in the spring. You bud in August. It's almost time for budding time,.
and you cut a little tee in the fruit, then you cut a bud off, then you open that tee, and you
stick it down in there, and you wrap it with a rubber band, and you leave it. '
GT: Now what are you putting down there in : that little tee?
AL: A bud. It's one of those leaves. I'll even do it for you. I'll show you what we do. It's so
easy. You put that little bud right down in your tee, you wrap it up tight, and by the time
the rubber band rots off the tree, it's either knitted or failed to make it, you know, it's-
GT: So, where you put that one bud, will you. get one piece of fruit?
• AL: You don't. get any fruit yet. Then the next Spring, when the sap comes out, out of the tree,
you cut off that limb where you put that bud, right abovethe bud. And the sap comes out
and goes right out that new little bud you left and makes a- whole new limb. And it will . •
grow from me to that window in one year. So I've got a limb of another tree now.
GT: I've never. heard of this. '
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AL: : Well, I'm going to show you when you get outside.
. GT: You kxiow what, we're going to have to put batteries in that tape recorder- :
AL: .. [ Laughs] . • " . •
GT: And go outside and listen to you, tell [-] how to do this. .. -
AL: Oh, no. You don't want to do that.
GT: Yeah, because when I get home, I'm going to try this! [ Laughs] ,
AL: Oh, this is easy. This is so easy. . . • . '
GT: Can I do this in Missouri?
AL: Absolutely. Yeah, you don't have to worry about frost or stuff down there. You don't •
have to irrigate. We live in a desert here. We have to have our water, or everything will
blow away. But I can't live without my mountains, sorry. Missouri doesn't have my
mountains.
GT: [-] paint you a picture. [ Laughs] '
AL: Oh yeah, that's about all.
GT: You know what, I got hills. [ Laughs]
AL: I know, I've seen your hills. No, I have to have my mountains, thank you. -
GT: Okay, now you can and you dry, and ybujuice-
AL:' She makes. pickled beets, you know, she grows thered beets and makes pickled beets. In ;
fact, it's almost time for.- thaLlnfact, I could show your our pickled beets. They're about
ready to go. '. •
• GT: ; ' Okay, we'll do that in a little while. Now, we've got about ten more minutes before you
have to go turn your water on? •• '
AL: Teh more minutes before I have to call my son to do it. You wouldn't . want tosee me
have to- 1 have to layin the ground and yank that baby out to bring that water down here.
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GT: Of the fruit products that you do put away, what kinds of things do you make out of
those? You know, like pies, or-
ALr My wife will make pies, but she made. something called Kuken, and it's really a pie,
, without a crust on top. It has a crust on the bottom, and a [-], and then you put whipped
cream or something on top, and she makes those. We've got Italian prunes over here that
are purple plum with sweet yellow meat. Ooh, good stuff. We've got two of those, and.
she'll make them out of those, and she'll make. them out of- well, she'll make them out of
anything. If a bottled fruit starts to get a little bit old, you know, if it sat oh the shelf for'
four or five years and nobody ate it, she'll pull that baby out and make a Kuken.
GT: Now what's on the bottom? .
AL: Crust, like a regular pie. •
GT: • So you just make a pie crust, with like- Crisco-
AL: Or whatever, yeah. • •
GT: Do you use lard? v , '. ' .. . .
• AL: Yeah. Well, she uses Crisco. So it's not straight animal fat. It's the stuff you buy in the
store in the round cans. Yeah, that's Crisco. Basically Crisco.
GT: And flour? .
' AL: And flour, yeah. We buy flour.
GT: A little salt. . ' . ; . • : . , ;
AL: Just- 1 don't know what she uses, just the recipe you would make, you know, apple pie
crust with. ' " *'
GT: Youknow what, there's several different recipes. . ••
AL: Well, and I don't know which one my- yeah, I don't know which one my wife uses.
GT: We'd have to talk to her, wouldn't we? . .
AL: Yeah, yeah. She'll be home at 4, but she's working today. -
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GT: Okay. So she makes pies, and are there any other things you use your fruit in, like-?
AL: • Well, likeT say, toppings, jam, ' cause we eat a lot of bread- bread and jam. I like my
bread and jam. I like my toasL And I like to have homemade- 1 mean, I've never bought a '
bottle of jam in my life. Well, in my life I have, but not in my married life. Never bought,
I mean, we have it, what we want. . " ' :
GT: Do you ever sell any of your jam?
AL: • No. We give it away, but we don't sell it. We give it away.
GT: . Do'you ever make ice creams?
AL: We have a homemade ice cream maker, but we haven't used it much. We have. a root beer
maker with a thing, and we've got a lid where you could actually put the lids, new lids on.
We've made homemade root beer too, with the yeast.. That's good stuff. ".•••'
GT:- Do you use . any fruit in that? • '
AL: No, we don't. • - •
GT: • So that's- .-•'.:
AL: The only juices we have are . grape and sour cherry juices. •
GT: And you drink those plain? You don't do anything else with them? .
AL: When I make it, I'll- the grape juice is so rich that we'll put about a half thing full of '
water, and then put the grape juice in, and then just a touch of lemon, and maybe if it's
not sweet enough, we'll just put a dab of sugar to sweeten the taste. But people like it.
. GT: So when you. get ready to serve it, you just sling that jug over yourshoulder and pour it in
a glass.
" AL: . Bring it off the shelf, and bring it up here, and- yeah, you can drink it straight, but it goes
a lot farther if you'll mix it with water. ,
GT: Uh huh. *•
AL:. And a touch of lemon juice just gives it a zing.
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GT: So you put that in at the time you're serving. v
AL: . Only at the time you're serving. . .
GT: I see. Okay. . ' . "
AL: So am I an old enough fogey that you're getting what you want here out of this?
GT: Sure.
AL: Oh, okay.
GT: You're not quite as old as I am, but you're almost as old as I am. [ Laughs]
AL: Yep, not quite. If you started in' 62; I'm not quite. ' .
GT: Now, you're retired, and you could be doing a lot of other things-
AL: I'd go right back to teaching. Wouldn't bother me: at all.
GT: Why do you keep doing this- growing all this fruit, and putting up all this-
AL: , I think you're going to see a day when there will be nothing in the stores. AndT'm not a
fatalist, but all it would take is a decent trucker strike, and I've already talked to store
people. They said if people made a run on their stores, there would be nothing' in any
store in this valley in 72 hours. And that's all over the country. That's all over the
country! There is no d- 1 mean, Heinz is Heinz, or you know, the big companies are,
they're nation- wide. But he said^ in 72 hours, we wouldn't have a thing anywhere. So it
wouldn't take. much. ! * . - "!
GT:: Do you have-
AL: A good natural disaster, and you'd have it. So 1 like to have things on hand. •
GT: Are you growing any fruits that don't grow on trees?
AL: ; We used to have'a big patch of raspberries, but boy- they were a lot of work, and so. If we
get six cups off a few plants I've got left, you know, we freeze them usually.
GT: And that's it, the raspberries? • ; , •'
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AL:, The raspberries. I don't have any strawberries right now.
• GT; But you have the grapes. • . '
AL: , Wehave the sweet, we have the green seedless, and we have the Concords. And then we '
have some lighter Concords. And we' sell those and we also juice those. In fact, we'll put:
half green seedless with Concord, and'you can't, tell the difference from theregular
Concord. Just as good of juice- as you could ever have, so. That's, the only other fruits •
we're using, but we have sweet cherries and pie cherries. We have plums,- we have .
.-.'.. • '•" prunes, we have five or six kinds of apples. We have peaches, we have pears. We have : a
- ;' little bit of everything. You know, most things.. ; •
GT: - Mm hm. Now, did you ever work in anyone else's orchards, other than your own? .
AL: Just to pick. -- ' , ' ' "
GT: ' Where were those? . . v .'"••/ .>•
AL':' • - When I was growing up, everybody had their raspberry patch. And when the raspberries
1 ' were done, then the cherries would start. And so we'd go to Bingham's Cherries up by
the Orem City Cemetery. You probably came past it on your way. Tf you keep-
UN: •' I've been by there.... :'-"'- - • .. ;
AL: \ Well, yeah. It just goes up 16, past the old- Word Perfect, and you're right there at the
cemetery^ you know, and down Canyon Road, arid then go on up, you know,- toward the.;
canyon, and down over to Provo. so. " :
1 , '"'".'
UN: . I t ' s north of Harmon's, then. - ;• ; . i
AL: It's just, it's north of- that's fight, you're right. It's north of Harmon's: It's north of
'. Harmon's. Yeah, you just go follow that Harmon's road north, and you come to the
• cemetery. And there used to be big cherry orchards, and that's abo. ut the'only three places.
. I had- there were three different homes that had big raspberry patches, and all the
•; neighborhood kids and the moms, they'd get out there and they'd pick raspberries, and
/ ' they'd pay us, oh, maybe three-' dollar arid a half a case or something; I niean,- it was not .
. very much. \
GT: Mm hm.
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AL: • But, I can't remember what they paid us in cherries, but boy, I'll tell you, they didn't pay
• us much. And then my dad, while I was still home, planted 400 pie cherry trees. And to
get all those picked; we'd have 20,000 pounds, one at a. time. We'd draw all the
neighborhood kids, bring them in. We finally cut them all down. ' Cause [-] Roberts,
where we were taking our cherries- one year we paid our kids seven cents a pound for
• picking, and [-] Roberts paid us six. Fourteen months later. You don't stay in the
business- • • ' .-
GT: So that was losing. .
AL: Oh yeah. And now I sell my pie cherries for forty cents a pound, and I've only had ten
trees left. I used to have about 50.1 took 40 of mine out and we took all of Mom's out
except for about six. - . .
GT: Do you ever have people come in and pick themselves, and then you charge them- +-
AL: We used to, but we don't.- It's just a safety issue. Somebody, falling on a ladder. We do
our own picking. But we sell, we sell just about everything we have. We seldom waste •
•, . anything. T'm going to lose apricots this year because everybody has apricots. So I could
: say, Isold four lugs this morning, but I have 80 down there. You know, I've got thirteen
cherry- the guy that had this place was an . old peddler. So he had apricots, three or four
different kinds, and they came on at different times, and so they're all, they're coming
. ripe as you go, and apricots are so hard to pick, because when a peach tree is ripe, they're '
:' .. all ripe;' When an apricot, there's one ripe here,. and one ripe here, and three or four half'
• \ ripe; all the rest of them are green, and they just, you have to pick an apricot tree ten
times: It's- a lot of work. I don't make any money of that: .
GT: • Have you tell, tell us about one of your wife's specialties in cooking, or one of yours, and
then you better go call your son. , , .
AL: ' Yeah, I still have a minute and a half. • ,
GT: [ Laughs]
AL:. My wife makes wonderful bread. I mean, it is wonderful homemade bread, hot out of the'
oven. Butter on it, oh, homemade jam on it, and I stick a piece of cheese on that
homemade butter and jam. I like that contrast of the jam and the cheese. Oh, good stuff.
GT: What kind of cheese?.. . '
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AL: Oh, just medium. •• ;
GT: Cheddar? •"" ; ' " ..
AL: ^ Yeah, medium cheddar. Not the mild. I like the medium. Oh, and I like Swiss. I like all
kinds of cheese. I was in Germany for several, years, and the Dutch and the Germans
, * make wonderful cheese. Wonderful yogurt stuff.. My wife makes yogurt, too. She does .
make yogurt. She makes good yogurt, but it's so easy to buy it, and it's been cheap. It's
getting more expensive now. It's been cheap, but she doesn't- make if much anymore. But'
she makes that especially well, She's found a way to cook a turkey where the white meat
is never dry. She'd give you the recipe, and it's very. easy. Very easy. And" it's wonderful.
It's just as- In fact, I never would eat at my aunt's place, anything except the dark meat
, . because that was still juicy. Her white meat is just like the dark.
GT: Does she use yogurt in her turkey? ' •
AL: - Nope. . ;-, . "
GT: Oh, I thought you'were going to say she stuffed her turkey with yogurt. [ Laughs]
AL: Nope. No, she stuffs it with regular stuff, you make stuffing, you know, the giblets and all
the little celery and all the, whatever they put for their stuff. She just does that.
GT: Well why don't we press the pause button, and you go call your son.
AL: ' I- m going to wake him up. He's not going to be happy, but I-
[ pause in tape]
GT: Can we move the piano chair over so Harlow can sit here-.; "\
AL: You mean my kitchen chair that I'm learning to play the piano on? , .
GT: Yeah, and his question will go on to the tape. . .
AL: Okay, move him over. • . •
GT:' Move him over. . . . . . " ;
AL: - Yeah, but what if I can't answer it, see. I don't answer'. everything.
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GT: Oh, I bet you'll be articulate on it even if you don't know the answer. [ Laughs]
HC: English and history teacher knows everything.
GT: Yeah, right. "•' . . . •
AL: As [-], it all depends. • .
GT: All ready?
UN: Okay, first describe a lug for us. It's a term that is used here a lot, but not outside-
AL: A lug is a half a bushel. ..
UN: How is a lug set out? ' . . •
AL: Fuse Macey's boxes, nowadays. And I use just weigh it. A lug used to weigh- a bushel
used to weigh 50 pounds. And your producers now have cheated and cheated and cheated,
now they're down to about 36 to 38 pounds: You pay the same price, big round bushels '
hold 50 pounds. I still have those with my apples. So a lug for me is 25 pounds. So when
my Macey's. box gets to 25 pounds,- I've got a lug. I've actually got a lug box I can show
you, you know, what a lug box is, but it's a square- it's a rectangular, wooden sides,
wooden slats on the bottom type thing. But that's too expensive to buy, so I just go get
their surplus boxes, and they look about the right size, and stand'on the scales and weigh
this baby. • ' _ . '.
UN: . Do other producers- .
AL: They usually go. to Utah Valley Fruit growers if they want to be very fancy. And they buy
boxes. You can buy a lug box. . . '-•'"'• \
UN: You can buy one? .'•'".'.• • '
AL: Yeah, a cardboard one.,
• UN: Oh. Uh huh. And do they use the same 25- pound measure- ,
AL: . No, nobody does that except me. .
UN: That's you. "' - . . . - , , '
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AL: Yeah, that's me. I just can't- see, I sell my apples for maybe, eleven, twelve dollars a • '•"
bushel, and that's about 24" cents a pound. Have you ever bought an apple in the store for
. 24 cents?
UN: Never. ' ""• - • i ' • * . . . " '.
. AL: And I could make money on twelve, eleven, twelve dollars a bushel. Because I don't have
any overhead. I mean, I have to buy my spray, but I'm my own picker, and I do most of
, my own pruning. I could come out. See^ David Kirk over here used to do 30,000 bushels
a year of apples, sold them all the time. Associated Foods, that services all the stores,
, , came in and said, " Now we want you to sort them twelve ways instead of five." He
' . . figured it would cost him over a million dollars to do that, put him out of business. So he
• • sold them to the farmers in the South end^ of the county, all those guys down there, where
all the orchards are down there, Genola and Santaquin, and all that area, and they paid .
him $ 4 a bushel for them, cost him five to raise them.
UN:' Wow.. • :' F ;. J ; . " ' . „ ' • ' . ; '
AL: He did that for three years, now it's houses. Now I've cut a lot- of my trees down, fused to
'.. have 400; I'm down to 200 ' cause they're a heck of a lot of work, and I'm not getting any
younger. But my kids help, and youth groups aroundhere will need a service project, I let
. them come and pick up limbs. I'm not too proud. You know, I let them come and help on
some of the things that are tough', and now the government's taking away all the sprays,
and everybody has a little fruit tree here, and they don't spray them, arid so'I get all their
bugs. ' .
UN: • Ahh. ' ' '
AL: So that causes grief, you know, for me. ; -
UN: What do you have left that you can spray with? '
AL: Oh, we still have two good sprays for the apples. The worst thing is apples. With what
you could buy, you'd have to be spraying every three days for six months.
UN: livery three days for six months?
AL: - Yep. '. • . "': • •/.>-, '. ;
;.
GT: • And what is that with what you could buy?
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AL: With what I can buy, I can go 18 days on one and 14 days On the other. If it doesn't rain .
"• too hard. • ' "' - "''.'.'' ,.' ,
GT: What's it called? ,: • •'.. :'. . - ' '•'•• . ' :
AL: ' Gathaion, and DanatoL And they want to take. Gathaion away. So if they'do that, I may,' ,•
well,. I don't know. It puts it right on the border. Every two weeks'is a, for six months,
;'" •• that's- from May, June, July- May, June. July, August, J have to do eight or nine sprays at
•„• • • ; the way I'm going, arid i f l a dd a couple more, it's just too hard. • <*•••'•"'.
GT:.. Is there any other way to control those- .. • . . " ' -
AL: • No, no you can't. They- environmentalists will tell you different, but you can't".
GT: . What will they tell you? ", \ ./ '"' • . ' ' , , ; ;
. AL: Oh,, they say you can put bugs in there that will kill the other bugs, and it might for one "
:"• tree and one person's yard, but not commercially. Not* with everybody else not spraying..
• There's no way. --.. ; v -
UN: So you've got too much bug migration with everybody else's- -
AL: Yeah. With everybody else's stuff, nobody sprays sec, costs them too much money.. It's a
lot of money. h . • . .
•. UN: You mentioned pickled beets: Is that a Specialty around here?- Is that something that-' . "•'
AL: .• Yeah, they are red beets. They get about this big, arid it is- yeah, they're really kind of a
specialty. But of course,' we' had them in Nevada, too; so I know it wasn't just a Utah
thing. In fact, rny mom " used to even fry them. She'd take them out of the jar and fry them
'. ' in butter. ' ' . . . . ., -; - .; - .
UN: After they were pickled". '•*•:'. ••'.-• '. • * ''.
AL: After. they were pickled, and they were really good, but we'd just eat them pickled. 1 .
mean, it's just kind of a thing that sits there, like cranberry;' sauce- at Thanksgiving; you
.-.' know it's something that puts color on the table, but. that bowl always empties. Always •.
.. empties. Pickled. beets. Good stuff. ' '•. , , : \ t
UN:- Oh. Also, you mentioned the emergency preparedness. Describe how that interacts with
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. your religious beliefs. ,
AL: My religion says have a year supply of food. If you possibly can. And I don't mind doing.
that as long as I don't waste it. So we have to be very careful how we rotate. And we have
to use. Oh, you can store wheat, you know, for years and years arid years, but this bottled •
fruit stuff, we rotate. We're using that stuff. But if a year conies where we don't have any
' fruit, we have fruit. • • - ." . 1
UN: You've got it in the rotation.
AL: We've got it. In fact, the way my wife does these tomatoes, and stews these, we just cut •
those tomatoes just into- we don't skin them, we don't anything. We just cut fhem- into-we
go buy these- we grow these little Romas about this big, and we just cut them into
' about four pieces, get that whole pan full. We add allthe onions, cut those- chop those
babies up, onions, and peppers and cucumbers- not cucumbers, celery, all that stuff in
there. Oh, man. You could put that- open a bottle . of that, and it's just like fresh tomatoes.
In fact, I've never bought a tomato from the store. '
UN: Do you make salsa that way, or- •
AL: Yeah, we make salsa. We put them up this way, and then make salsa out of this batch, .
and spaghetti sauce out of this bottle, and taco sauce out of this bottle. We make whatever
we want with this thing that sits on the- and they'll sit very easily for four years on the
shelves. We don't like to do them that long, but I mean, they're still just as good:
UN: Do you cook them before they go in [-]?
AL: Oh yeah, they have to be pressure- cooked. Oh, yeah. Tomatoes kill you quicker than ; •
nothing. In fact, you have to cook those longer than you do the fruits. Even though they
are a fruit, technically. - .
UN: You don't add sugar to your tomatoes. '•.
AL: . Does she add sugar? No, she adds salt. I don't think she adds sugar to tomatoes. I don't
think so. No, I don't think so. When she- makes her sauce, she may do a little something.
' Cause they all have sugar in. But you'd have to ask my wife. I don't know that. Too bad
she's not here. She knows more than I do.
UN: [-]• [ Whispering] • .
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AL: I think, they're done. • 1 •
GT: . Yeah. ' ' . ; .
UN: I know Gloria wants to go out and see the orchards. And take notes. [-]
GT: T know. And I was just thinking [-]- ;
AL: - I've got lots of weeds. ' . , .
GT: - if I was right here by the table, I would ask you to sign this consent form. And this tape
and any photographs that are taken will be going into the Folk Archive at BYU so that,
you know, like future generations, your great- grandchildren can find-
AL:' The last group that came here, though, gave me a'tape also.
GT: Oh, did they? Would you like to have one? '• '• •
AL: Yes, I would like to have one, .
GT: Okay, so we need. to get you a tape. . •'.
AL: Yeah, tape or pictures or. whatever you do. I mean, they were very nice about it. That was
also BYU. , .'" . ' y.~': >• ' .-
GT: Now, who came out here?. '
AL: Some young people. - .' :
UN: They were the advanced work. They were doing the advanced work for us.
AL: Okay. •• -.
• GT: So Ben, Christine, [-]. . . -
AL: Yeah, there were several. There were several.
GT: Several? . v J . ' ^ • . . ' • • ' ' ' .
• AL: Uh huh. And they came out, and we went through the orchard. Well, we just went, just
Fruits of their Labors
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out the backyard here, you can see the nectarines on peach tree. And I could show you
buds. "
GT: Did you show them how to- bud? : , .'•-.<•
AL: • Uh, no. Idon't think I did. , \ ' - • ;
GT: All right! We're getting something they're not getting, [ Laughs] -
UN: I have a question. How about favorite recipes made from fruit? Either that you or-
AL: :' Just my wife's different Kukens, I think is our favorite recipe out of fruit. I mean, she can
make, you know, it'd be just like an apple, pie with cinnamon on it and cream, you know,
using. botfled apples or peaches, or the prunes. I mean, we eat a lot, of it- just bottled. ' But if
she makes a treat out'of it, I mean, I like them all. I mean, they're good. They're really
tasty. As good as anything you'll buy in a store. ' •
UN: Now does she work from r e c i p e s ? :
AL: , Well, she has a recipe book,- but now, she just- a pinch of this and a dash of that, I mean, I
think- 1 don't think she needs a recipe anymore. She does have a- we have found a health
drink, a health food we've made out of drinks. She was taking Viox for five or six years
for pain for arthritis.. So painful. But then her legs started to swell. And we found , a bottle',
that had some stuff in it made out of fruit juices, and she bought this bottle, and it helped
her. So she copied the ingredients off the. bo. ttle. And there's eleven different fruits.
. Mangoes- just everything. Pears- and especially pie cherries, and grapes, and blueberries.'
UN: Wow. . . . "- - . ' . - . ' , - • , . • ''
AL: She hasn't had, I don't think, two.' Vioxxesin four months. It's taken her right'' off- it. All
she has is a little whisky shot- glass full of that juice every day, and she doesn't have to :
take: the pills anymore. • • ' ' . . ' • ' '•
UN: So does she- ' '•'--'•
AL: And all it is- is'fruits. So we know these. fruitsare good stuff.
UN: Does she- , * -:.
AL: And then she does this fresh. We freeze it so we always have it on hand. We'll get a
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year's supply of those different kinds of fruits so. we've got it for a year in case things
happen. -
UN: What about mangoes, how do you- you just get those from a store, or-
AL: , Yes, and we cut them up and freeze them.
UN: Ah. _ : " . • : -
AL: - In fact, we got them from Macey's over here [ whispers] four of them for a dollar. \
Because they had a sale on. Man, we loaded on mangoes and cut those babies off the pit
and stuck those things in plastic bags and in the freezer! We've got a year's supply
already for her drink. Just for her drink. We won't use them for other things.
UN: [ Laughing] •
AL: You still have a question.
UN: Oh, I was wondering, how do you store your recipes? On cards, on notepaper, in a bound,
book? , ' . •
AL: She has cards. Jenny has cards that. she uses. She's got recipe books, tons of them. But
she doesn't use them much anymore because we have our favorites; I mean, we have the
store, make pur hamburger, you know, we have a man come out there, and they kill the
animalright here and take everything away, and we tell them we want it cut' for 5people,
or if I give a quarter a kid, they want it cut for ten people, you know, how- size of the
family. We want so much roasts, andso much steaks, and so much hamburger. And they
just cut it the way we want it, package it, we bring it home and stick it in the freezer. So
we freeze or we bottle. -
UN: How much freezing do you do? How many cubic feet of freezer space-
AL: I've got a big freezer, and it's full. I don't mind showing if you want to see it. I mean, it's
full right how. And we don't. have a heck of a lot more to put in it because a lot of stuff
weTfdo now, it's going to be bottled. Well, no, the grapes, she'll bottle the grapes. •
Because that's all going to be juiced.
UN: How do you decide whether you freeze a fruit or decide to bottle it? How do you make
that choice?
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AL: Well, this drink, we try to get that as- the only thing we can't get is cranberry, so we had
to buy something that was called, ' straight cranberry juice' but that was in a bottle and
there was a little sugar in it. But everything else. we'vebeen able to buy fresh. And so
we'll freeze those kinds of things; If we get some raspberries, and she won't- and doesn't •
want to jam them, we'll freeze them. So I guess if we don't want to jam them or bottle
them, we'll freeze them. If we're not going to eat them right now. If there's more than
we're going to eat right now, but not enough to bottle or can, or we've got enough, then
we freeze it.
GT: If you have room in your freezer.
AL: We use stuff put of that, rso we will. We will.
GT: I wonder what product that was that she copied for this arthritis.
AL: I don't know, I don't know." . *
GT: That would be interesting.. I have taken Vioxx and. Celebrex myself.
AL: Weil, she'd give you the recipe of what she's doing. You could do it yourself. She'd be
glad to. _ :'. . '• '•" . -
GT: I'd like to. I want to call her up. '. ;
AL: I could tellyou every fruit that's in it. There's eleven of them.
GT: But it takes a certain combination?
AL: No, we don't know the combination. It didn't have the combination on the bottle. We just
put- . . • " • : ' . •'
GT: Okay. What were those eleven fruits?"
AL: I can give them to you when we're done if you like. I mean, there's no sense- that- on the '
tape. too. . ' ••. ..
GT: Well, that's okay. If there's room, go ahead. *
AL; Well, you've got blueberries, and mangoes, and pears, arid raspberries, and strawberries,
sour cherries, Concord grapes . . . [ pause] .
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GT: [ Whispers] Cranberries. /
AL: V Cranberries. So I've named eight. Oh, citrus. Sowe've used orange juice or lemon juice.
Citrus, that's nine. I don't know what I've said anymore..
GT: Pear. • ' " •
AL: • I don't know that I've said pear, but it's in there.
GT: Okay, apple. : • \
AL: Apples, that's ten. ' . * -
GT: Pear and. apple, that made eleven.
AL: Well, that could make eleven, but we could write it down for you. And she just, she's got
,\ a- what she does now with it. She's got her own little recipe that seems to work, and
she'd be glad to. share it with you. . . .. >
GT: All right. • . ;. • ' .
AL: It's nothing to hide. All it is, is fresh. Fresh or frozen. Fresh or frozen.. And boy, I'll tell
you, we used some awful dried apples. In July, we were still out of [-] yellow [-] from last
, Fall, and they were as dry and shriveled as they could be, and she put the skin and all in.
Even seeds on those.
GT: You put it in the blender?
AL: She's got a powerful blender. It just, .' chump!' boy, it just does it.
GT: No bananas in there? • • •
AL: I'll show you the drink. " ' . .
GT: All righty.- Just before we go in there, though, this is the release form, and you're, going to
write your name there. You can read that if you want to.
AL: But I would like you to get me a copy.
GT: We will. Do you want me to write that on there? . ' ',
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AL: Yeah, that would. be nice on there. It's not that I don't trust people, it's just I don't trust
people.
UN: Sure, makes sense to me. ' .". ' -
UN: If the government takes away the [-], will you not do apples anymore, or-
GT: [ in background, as writing] We . . . will •,. . furnish . . . a copy . . . of .<. . tape-
AL: I will think very strongly of cutting down- only enough for me, and not- selling to the
public. . •••••
UN:- Not selling to the public.
AL: I'll never cut'down everything. I'll always have enough for myself and my family.
UN: What percentage of your orchard is apples? What will you lose if that happens?
AL: Uh, it's 90%.. . • .- , \ "
UN:' • 90%.' , . . - • ' • ' . • ' . • ' • • . • * • • " • :
AL: Well, maybe it's only 80%. I am getting more peaches. They take a lot less spray. A lot
less spray. Easier. • -
GT: Can I say photographs that come out well? Because some of them don't come out well.
AL: Yeah, yeah. That's great.
GT: . ' Cause in our photographic review sometimes, some of them just don't come out at all. I
mean, so.
AL: Yeah. Where do you want me to sign? " •
GT: Put your name up there and then down at the bottom you sign it. We can fill in the
address and that if you don't want to. .
AL: Okay, naw, I don't want to. '-
GT: Arid somehow, rather miraculously, the three of us made it into this newspaper..
24 ; ,
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| All laugh| ; ' • . ; ..-
GT: That's just to prove that we're who we say we are. Thank you so much.
AL: Uh, I'm not worried about that.
GT: [ Laughs] Thank you for your time.
AL: What I do is a lot of work, and nobody would want to copy it, anyway. But I like it. It
keeps me young. I'm teaching myself how to golf and play the piano, and that's my fun,.
things, and then I work the farm. And moms:
GT: Well, after the tape recorder goes off, I'dlove to sing, a song with you.
AL.: , [ Laughs]
GT: [ Laughs] We usually [-],. it's one. of the big things. •
AL:. Lenjoyed music. I sang in college in the choir, and I like music.: : ,.
GT: I even have a- . . .
AL: I played the trombone for years.
GT: I even have a song that's kind of relevant- to fruit. Is that tape over yet? I t ' s not? [ Laughs]
AL: See, it's a good tape. Do you want to go out and see the nectarines on peach trees?
UN: Oh, sure, yeah.
• GT: Yeah, he's got to put those batteries in there.
UN: Do you want to say anything to wrap up this component?
GT: Okay, this is the interview that we did in the living room here.' [ Laughs] And there's that
rug on the wall, which is nice because it kind of absorbs some of the sound, and we don- t
have any reverb in here. -
AL: - A German lady knitted that for us, ;
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GT: Oh. And then, let's see. Let's look around. Someone drew some apple trees over there.
AL; My daughter. In fact, my daughter just received her second kidney. I gave her a kidney ten
years ago, and she just received her own from her sister, and she draws those. She's
almost legally blind, but she draws those.
GT: Wow. Let's see if there's anything else fruity around this roorn.
AL: Fruity, you ought to see the kitchen. The kitchen's full of fruity things. '
GT: Okay, we're going now. . = • . . ..
AL: [ Laughs]
[ pause in tape] ... . • " ' ,: ; '
GT: While- , ' . : '
| end of side A| . • ;.
[ side BJ . • ": .
. GT: I thought it was five thousand.
' UN: We're 47 hundred, aren't we? '* .
AL: No, we're about 42 hundred.
UN: 42 hundred? . . . ' '. . • :
AL: 45 hundred,'' cause Salt Lake's about 42: "
UN: Yeah.
GT: • Oh, we're four thousand, two. hundred? r ' ;. \ •'. /
' AL: 44-' • '\ '
GT: We're getting ready to go outside and see the trees, and find out how- •
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AL: To bud.
GT: - he does budding. Which is a very special thing. It's not grafting/ it's budding.
[ pause in tape] \ • •
AL: Okay, this is a peach tree that I changed half of it to a. nectarine. You can see the
nectarines, and you can see the. peaches. In fact, it- you think you have these things
thinned, and you don't have. them thinned. ; i .
GT: Now, you're just taking those i off and throwing them away? '. .
AL: Yep. A peach tree will put out seven or eight peaches, but that limb can only support one,
so you try to have them six or eight inches apart. It's really hard to do. Look, there's
another one I've missed. There's another one I've missed. John, you're not very good.
JL: I didn't do that tree. That was your tree, Dad.
AL: Oh. • . .'
GT: . Can you point to where you graft- or, you budded, so he can- •
AL: I will make you a bud. '
GT: All right. • • . " •
AL: Here we go. . •
GT: He's going to get right up there with that camera. ;
AL: It has to be first year wood. So, let's find me a nice, big, first year wood tree. Here's a
good first year wood. Here is abud. Well, let's pick this one right here. I cut it like this-
GT: So how can you tell that's a bud?
AL: Well, because it's got a leaf on it. You turn it into a bud.
GT: Oh. If it has, a leaf, it's abud? ". .
AL:: Yep. . ' ' .: "
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GT: So you cut the leaf part off-
AL: And then you cut out the inside cambrian layer. Gotta get that white stuff out of there. I
use a smaller knife, generally. Okay. Now if I wanted to take this, and this is probably a
peach here, I have to put it into first year wood. So I have ' til some of these suckers grow
up. And so what I do is cut the- break the leaves off, and I've got to cut me a tee. Put this
in my mouth. The saliva helps it take better. I don't know why. But I. gotta split this baby
. open, take my bud, and'slide it down in there.
GT: .' Hmm. '
AL: Now you have a bud. Oh, bless your heart, John. And then you take this rubber band, and
. you wrap this baby up nice. Protect it so it can heal.; And, all it will do is heal. It will not
grow. .. •
GT: Now, you just tucked that under to secure it?
AL: Yep. Okay, now- . . .
GT: By two years from now- •
AL: No, no, stop- now just let me tell you. Now, all this is going to dp, thiswill rot off by
September. And it will just be sitting here. And if if took, this will just be sitting here, and
so it will sit all Winter. Nothing will happen,' cause the growing season is over. Next
Spring, when the sap comes up this thing, I cut it off right here above the bud. The sap '.
comes up out this new thing, and this will make a limb as tall as this one.
GT: And about when is that? - "
AL:. Spring, when things start to'grow. • v .
GT: I mean, May?. . ..
AL: Yeah, May. When things start to grow. April. April, things start to grow around here. And
the'sap will come up- • -
GT: And so then you cut if off right there? '.'
AL: I'll prune it off right here. Cut It off. And then-
28
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GT: Mm hm. But you leave the mbber band there? ••
AL: Oh, it will already be gone. But when you cut off everything above, it takes the nearest •
bud spot and starts growing, and so it'll come right out that bud.: . '. '.;
GT:. And that's going to be a plum? .'•' •
AL: No, this is. a peach on a peach. I was just showing you how,; to do it. •
GT: Oh, I see. ' ' , ; ' : , • \ ". • ' . . •
AL: You can put on anything youwant to do. Imean, anything that can be done. Like I say,
this limb is peach, and yet, I've got nectarines all through it. All that whole up there is all
nectarines. '
GT: And for every one of those branches, you had to make one of those little'cuts? • '
." AL: No. Oh, I'll go around a tree, and Thavefo put it on first year wood: And Soviet's see if J;
can find one. .
GT: That first year wood, is that called suckers?
AL: Yeah, sucker wood. You. put it- •. '•• • '-: '. ' •"•
[ pause in tape] , ,, . "
AL: See if I can find if. No, it was all the way down.
UN: '[-]. ' - - V. " :. - • ^ '
AL: Oh, darn. it. , ' . :
UN: fake a small cut from here, and then you take the white part out. •
UN: Yeah. [-]. r ' ' ' S ' '-:'
GT: Now when that water goes- - • •
[ pause in tape] .'..." -
Fruits of their Labors
FA20- FOTL- GT- A002
AL: Okay. I cut off a branch right here, and this is the bud that was left, and it came out. And
so this is one kind of peach, but this is the peaches I got off this tree, ' cause the rest of the
tree wasn't any good. So this is where a bud went. And here's when it didn't take last
year. Look, see, I did it, and then I cut it off above, that's one that didn't take.
UN: What's the advantage of budding over grafting?
AL: You already have your root system. You don't have to worry about a tree dying. You
don't have to wait eight years, or several years to get fruit. You'll get fruit in a couple .
years this way, rather than waiting. ' . . .
GT: Do very many people do that?
AL: Nobody does it.
GT: Did you invent it?
AL: No. The- our oldest- this full- time farmer did it all the time. But let me show you this ,
. apple tree over here. It's just wonderful. A wonderful'example- •
GT: Now, are there too many on that branch?
. AL: Yes, it is, but there's so few little fruit- it's gonna get. good size. But I took off about ten. I
mean, this whole limb was just clear full of them, and I've left too many. My dad .
wouldn't thin at all, and the old big Jack Kirk would say, " let him leave his on; and I'll
take mine off about every eight- inches," and I'll have just as much'weight'in fruit as he
does, but he'll have a bunch of little ones, and I'll have just a few big ones. But the
weight of the fruit will be equal.
UN: And that was true?
AL: That is true. A tree can only support so much stuff.
GT: Well where would [-]? .. '
AL:' Uh, just. [-]. There's [-] the bud really easy over here. . .
[ pause in tape]
AL: • • Here's where I cut off the branch. Here's where I put the bud. This is the bud, what the-"
Fruits of their Labors
FA20. FOTL- GT- A002
bud grew to. This is a beautiful Red" Delicious tree, and this whole thing is Golden
Delicious right'here: This whole limb.
UN: Why" would you ever graft if you bud?
AL: I don't know. I love to do this. Come here, come look at this. You can see this. This one's
good. Here's where Tput the rubber band, right here. And this is- it healed itself. This is
where, I put in a bud right here, and this is bud. This is what the bud grew to. So this is a
Red Delicious tree, and this is a Golden Delicious, all this one limb. .
GT: Wow. •. " '• •
AL: Full of Golden Delicious.
GT: Now where ? s the Red Delicious apples?
AI : Well, they're all green right now. They're not ripe.
GT: Oh. . . .
AL: '- The apples get ready in September.
UN: ' Cold weather has to make them turn.
AL: , Yeah, they needcolor. They need cold weather toiturn. But, they're all- everything's
' ' green right now. It's hot ripe. You take things in season as they come;
GT: I see. "' :
AL: But that's the perfect example. That's that little bud I stuck with the rubber band.
UN: How many years'growth? : i "
GT: Now how many years? • ;
• AL: : Oh, this has been about eight. Maybe ten. It's been a while, but it's a perf- ' cause you can :
see everything. The rubber band was wrapped' around this.
UN: What kind of system do you follow* throughout the orchard to decide how many/ different
varieties are on the stalk?
Fruit's. of their Labors
FA20- FOTL- GT- A002
AL: It was here. The orchard was here: So I took what was there: I never did have enough •
Goldens, so every once in a while, I'd just put in a limb of Goldens. So I've got a limb of -
Goldens on about ten different trees now. I do have a tree down in the lower orchard that
. had summer apples that would fall off early, and I changed the whole thing over to
Goldens. So, it's now a Golden Delicious tree. Except one limb down . at the bottom."' Get's
just enough applesauce, I took it over to Grandma, and she likes her summer apple
applesauce. So I took her over about, I don't know, a quarter of a bushel.
GT: So you can make things out of the green apples?
AL: We don't, no, we don't. Some people like to eat green apples with salt on them, but we
don't. It's just so- hot, it's so hot everywhere! They're starting to grow. They're getting
size, so we just have to wait.
UN: Is this [-] or Golden on Red? • •'' ""' ' • •'-' > . _ . ; . -
AL: This is Golden on a Red Delicious. •
GT: Now, do you have any Jonathan apples? . / .
AL: I, do. Yeah, every other tree in this orchard is Johnny. Johnny Delicious, Johnny
Delicious, generally speaking. ' . - 1
GT: . Why do you pattern them that way? -
AL:" Because they won't pollinate. A Delicious needs a Johnny. Johnny doesn't need the
Delicious; the Delicious needs the Johnny. You can't have one sweet cherry tree. You've
got to have two different kinds. Or you've got to bud one onto your other, and so that
your one tree has two kinds., Pie cherries don't need any- any bees or anything. They just
.- pollinate themselves, so, but these other, things do. , •
UN: Do apricots do themselves, too? ' . .
AL: No, they need the bees. We have. to have the bees. • . r
UN: They don't put the- ',
AL: Oh yeah, they don't need different kinds, either.
UN: - different kinds. •''.-" „: - .- —
32
Fruits of their Labors
FA20- FOTL- GT- A002
AL: - That little limb, that little light limb is a Yellow Paramaine on a Red Delicious tree. Just-,
one limb right there on that tree, but that's such a perfect example to show. See, and to
make it go like this,. this'thing didn't want'to go, so. I had to tie it. I had to tie this end •
down with a rope and stake it to make it come out here, ' cause it was just a little sucker
going straight in the air, and I bent it over, and made it grow that way.. So that was fun.
UN: So you've orchestrated the whole movement? ' •
AL: I did. I did. Yeah, and I thank Jack Kirk for that. He taught me how to do that.
GT: And he was the original owner of this place?
AL:> No, he had the big place on the corner that's going into houses. The original owner of ..
this, his kids didn't want to farm, it's too much work, and so they just- when he got old, •
he just sold it.
GT:- Now, who else are you teaching to bud? ' '
AL: I'm not. • . . - .
GT: So he's going to be the tradition- bearer. ' • . .
AL: Yep, •. . • '
GT: And what's his name? '
AL: John. And he either does it or dies. Or the knowledge dies.
GT: You better carry on the tradition, Bud. , • • ' '
JL: That's right. ' • . ; ,• , ."
GT: You got it? [ Laughs] You better teach somebody else, too.
JL: ' I will. . ,
AL: Teach his own kids. •
JL: • I don't have any kids yet, but I'm working on that.
33
Fruits of their Labors
FA20- FOTL- GT- A002
UN: Well, this might be a good time. Unless anyone else has any more questions.
AL: Would you go see where the water is real fast?
JL: Yeah, I'll go find it, ' cause I turned it on just barely before I got here-
GT: Wrap it up? Is there anything else out here that you want to show us?
AL: No, I mean, I've got grapes all down that road, and you can see them right over there, just
like that. Those are Concord, and " these are green seedless. So nothing's ripe, so.
GT: All righty. Well, we're going to wind it up. Thank you; Is there anything else you'd like to
tell us that we haven't asked you? .' • .
AL: You could taste a pickled beet if you really want to.
GT: Well all righty,- let's do it.
AL: John, where'd you put the pickled beets?'
JL: I put them on the counter in the kitchen. ' -
AL: Okay. . / . " '.;'."'
[ end of interview] ,.'.•'."' . . • . •