Outreach no. 265

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OUTREACH
the newsletter of
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MARCUS BACH founder
no 265
THE LETTER
dear friend of the fellowship
in looking back over our 25 years of uninterrupted monthly publication of OUTREACH I1 erred in
not devoting more space to interviews and dialogues with members of the FSU family whats the
difference between a dialogue and an interview not much in an interview the interviewer tries
his or her best to ferret out the views of the interviewee while in a dialogue the dialoguer is dying
to log some of herdhis own opinions into the conversation
the reason id like to do more interviewing or dialoguing is because of the remarkable letters
members write about their own convictions considerations and conclusions about what the quest
in lifes journey is all about there seems to be a sudden awareness that the world within oneself
is as exciting and important as the world out there in almost every nation there is a trend toward
sseeexllffpexreprsessisoionn and personal assertion FSU is not a big movement but the experiences of its
readers are vitally important in the life of our time FSUs quarter of a century has unveiled the
ttaalleenntst saanndd philosophical convictions of many of its members our readership includes professionals
in a variety of fields and most of all people dedicated to the sincerity of a spiritual quest
As an example I1 coaxed one of our longtime FSU members to let me use him as a person in point
he is mack E lathrop a longtime resident and manual arts specialist at the united methodist
memorial home one of the finest largest and most impressive retirement villages in the USA
mack just recently celebrated his goth birthday and was warmly feted by the administrative heads
and members of this warren indiana complex
mack is more than deserving of special recognition in view of his tthhiirrttyyffiivvee years with UMMH where
he was in charge of the construction of new buildings including aacthhrreeee story structure atwo doctor
clinic and additions of all kinds the expertise of his work is also significant throughout the homes
interiors of cabinets desks and other pieces of finely hhaannddwwrroouugghhtt furniture
this tall active sseellffeeffffaacciinngg american of the old school speaks in my opinion the language of the
alert creative and fearless senior citizens in a world in transition where truth and tradition can no
longer survive without the infusion of spiritual understanding
my friendship with mack began in a most serendipitous way A close associate of mine in the
midwest bequeathed a 200 year old grandfather clock to me and during its shipment from
chesterfield indiana its finials were lost because of a truck mishap in my search for a craftsman
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who might have the skill to reproduce these intricate spires I1 learned that mr lathrop was a aagagegenenniiiuuusss
in this field sight unseen except for some awkward sketches that I1 copied from old clock
cccaaatttaaallloogguueessr mack came up with finials perfect in every way
this also led to a close bond because of my interest in antique furniture mack reported that during
his work on this job many thoughts of the old masters often passed through his mind I1 was
intrigued by his frequent references to his beliefs in reincarnation and suggested that surely some
of the spirit if not the soul of the lloonnggaaggoo wwooooddwwoorrkkiinngg geniuses might have played their part in
his expertise
recently during the persian gulf conflict other common interests of a philosophical kind were
triggered inasmuch as he had a son and two grandsons on the scene in active military service
suffice it to say that there was growing correspondence with mack which led to this current issue
of OUTREACH
so come along and meet mack not merely for an interview or a dialogue but for a friendly visit
with a yyoouutthhffuullmmiinnddeedd nonagenarian as we explore one mans odyssey in a century of challenge
and change
yours for the fellowship
early in my career I1 learned that loving
ones work leads to a form of worship mack E lathrop
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THE LESSON AND THE LEARNING
by way of a visit with mack E lathrop
congratulations mack on your goth birthday july 1166.11999911
thank you its something ive been looking forward to since 1901
according to zodiacal signs july 16 makes you a moon child have you ever interested yourself
in astrology
cant say that I1 have neither my wife pearl nor I1 were interested in astrology we read about
it but some way it never attracted us not because we thought of it as without foundation but
rather it seemed to require a tremendous amount of theoretical work to do anything with it so
I1 was never interested in having a horoscope made
I1 understand that some of the traits pertaining to you would be modesty imagination and a wish
for a quiet life any comment
I1 have noticed throughout the years thatwe often find traits in others to which we respond because
they are traits within ourselves regardless of zodiacal predictions I1 think it was emerson who
once saild that in t he zodiac serpents scorpions crabs goats and the like lost their meanness
so thats good because 1I suppose we are all more alike than we are different we are ailil a pppaaadrrddt
of the same universal nature
how does it feel to quietly take an inventory of one mans sojourn through nearly a century
it seems a good time to reminisce about the past and wonder what the future has in store if
vibrations continue to speed up as they have in the last 50 years with all the changes and
surprising developments for the benefit of mankind it will be a fantastic world
you sound very optimistic
my optimism is a hope the reality of the present world is however frightening
would you explain
thou shalt not kill for generations that has been disregarded almost as though it never existed
for years we have thought that if the government declares war and sends men into battle with
the purpose of killing the act is thereby justified and the individual is free from responsibility I1
remember reading in one of joel goldsmiths books where he makes the statement that if one
in his mind disapproves of what is being done it frees him from responsibility I1 used to take
comfort in that but I1 can no longer do so we have a mind and we are responsible for what we
do
do you think self responsibility is as vital a commandment as it was during lets say your young
adulthood from our correspondence I1 remember you were with the minority in your views
against desert storm
desert storm was one of the worst mistakes we have ever made because it was done even in
spite of the terrible lessons we should have learned from our other military adventures doing
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a thing in ignorance is bad but to do it in spite of the light is unpardonable
MB are you still of this opinion
mack it is my feeling that there will be repercussions from such actions for some time to come the
economy may recover some but I1 predict that it will drop to a new low and continue the rise and
fall until it reaches alarmingly low proportions the burden of caring for the elderly those who
have no health insurance the unemployed trying to keep up with the ever increasing costs of
highway upkeep and construction plus the never ending military supplies and new weapons will
become an unbearable burden
MB am I1 correct in sensing a strong feeling of pessimism in what you have just said
mack it is not pessimism but rather my belief in the inevitable working of a karmic aw
MB would you care to go more deeply into karma as you interpret it
mack karma as we all know is the law of cause and effect some believe it is an immutable law and
others contend that gods love will supersede what we like to call godsjustice
all of these views
are based on theoretical thinking I1 feel for example that when we dropped the atom bomb on
japan a karmic cycle was put in motion which dwells deeply in both the japanese consciousness
and in american reflection on what transpired in the light of history it surely has become a part
of an international confrontation with a divine injunction be not deceived god is not mocked
MB could this karmic factor be true in all international relationships I1 mean that we have always
constricted the karmic law to purely personal encounters have we now reached a point when
international interests are at the bar of gods law of cause and effect
mack inasmuch as nations are made up of individuals who are subject to karma therefore nations and
international interests are at the bar of gods law this behooves nations to see to the proper
education of their citizenry in the standard subjects and morals as well I1 personally have often
wondered what I1 may have done in my own life ffoorrwwhhiicchh 1I am paying karmic debts in various ways
As we sow so shall we reap is also a karmic warning or injunction I1 think that is why I1 lean toward
a belief in reincarnation the possibility of a second chance so to say
MB surely your views on such ssppeeccuullaattioionns as the law of karma and reincarnation were not part of
your early boyhood religious training
mack hardly
MB how about your religious peregrinations
mack unfortunately it would require a book and not an interview
MB how about cuing us in on some early biographical highlights
mack I1 was born on a small farm in oswego county in new york state my parents were barely able
to make a living adequate for them my sister and me we didnt realize then but in the standards
of today we were below the poverty level however in our ignorance we had a happy and more
or less carefree life my parents were good christian people respected in the community my
fathers word was as good as his bond at any time we were always in debt which was very
humiliating to me for I1 was always having to go to the store for supplies which always ended with
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the words charge it eventually my father paid his debts and died debt free
MB did religious affiliation play any important part in your early boyhood
mack very much so my mother was a methodist my father a baptist to avoid any favoritism one
ssuunndadyawye we would attend the methodist church while the next sunday would find us at the baptist
maybe that had something to do with my tendency to question things religious in my later life
MB could you cite an example of a boyhood experience that has stayed with you through the years
mack my first memory of any importance goes back to four years of age when a circus came to a city
some ten miles away and my father made a real sacrifice and took me to it naturally it was a
tremendous event in my life and the impression has lasted all these years
MB I1 wonder if parents today recognize how their religious concepts mould the future of their
childrens belief patterns
mack I1 know they influenced mine the start of religious training by my mother is my next memory in
the summertime when it was warm mother would take me and my sister to a freshly cut hayfield
where all the beautiful scents of earth were abundant for a session of bible reading I1 think 1I ccaanreedd
more for the sound of my mothers voice than I1 did for the truths read from the good book even
so a picture began to form in my mind of god with a long white beard high in the sky with a
secretary on either side whose duty it was to keep an account of all my mistakes and enter them
in the eternal record for later review even today when the deity is mentioned that picture of
a stern god flashes through my mind and I1 have to check myself the picture was so clear I1 used
to gaze at the sky and wonder just why I1 couldnt get a glimpse in my childish reasoning the
answer came telling me that I1 simply was not good enough the subject of heaven and hell in
which my mother firmly believed did not interest me at the time however as I1 grew older and
began to realize the implications of those words there began to dawn within me a doubt which
became larger as time went on in the first place life in heaven seemed to consist of endlessly
singing praises and maybe thrumming a harp I1 love good music but that kind of activity for all
eternity left much to be desired hell was a different matter as it appeared to be a case where
the punishment greatly oobuuattblaalnancceedd the crime how anyone could do enough evil on earth in
a lifetime to merit eternal damnation was stretching my sense of justice too far
MB when and where did the transitional steps in your religious philosophy take place
mack As I1 became a part of traditional church thinking I1 also discovered I1 became apart from it As the
years went by I1 finished college became an industrial arts teacher in the new york state schools
married a beautiful girl and had one son who with his two sons has just finished a stretch with
operation desert storm but that is another story
MB who were some of the people that influenced your spiritual outlook during those years
mack well there was sherwood eddy whose book you will survive after death threw light on the
continuation of personality after death at the time eddy was the wwoorrllddwwiiddee secretary for the
YMCA another book that seemed to ring with truth was thomas sSuuggrruueess biography entitled
there Is A river this exciting story introduced me to the life of edgar cayce and the subject of
reincarnation a belief that after death our soul is transferred to another plane of existence where
we have the opportunity to learn new and greater truths than had been possible on earth after
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a period of time maybe a year or hundreds of years the soul is given counsel as to its standing
if it failed to get all it should on earth the first time it is advised to return and I1 must include glenn
cdolaarrkk founder of camps farthest out who in turn influenced me greatly by his book the man
who tapped the secrets of the universe after this I1 no longer felt alone with my unorthodox
beliefs and I1 became an avid reader of the new thought and new age leaders and their
movements such as unity and the fFiillllmores the theosophists and this is also where FSU came
in at a very wweellllttiimmeedd period
while much of this reading verified your beliefs did it also inspire you to experience similar
responses within yourself
yes I1 must say that they deepened my insight and made life more thought provoking
could you give us an example
for a long time I1 have known that there are angels who help god carry on his work they go by
many names but they have numerous responsibilities which help the deity run the universe and
which help many humans in times of difficulty and bewilderment to find their way out I1 do not
know the rules they follow or exactly how the individual goes about getting their aid when needed
but such help has come to me several times and I1 would have been at a loss without it
As a case in point I1 have been a craftsman in woodwork
and machine metal work for many years by chance you
sent me your drawing of the two hundred year old grand-father
clock I1 came to the conclusion that something was
wrong with the finials decorative spires at the corners of
the hood in fact I1 doubted that they belonged on the clock
and in later correspondence told you so much to my
relief you told me that the originals had been lost and
those in use were the best that could be found I1 told you
to make a full size tracing of the top front of the hood and
with that to go by I1 would endeavor to design the needed
replacements after making some rough sketches I1 put a
block of wood in the lathe and started to turn out my design
this is where help from some angel came into use for even
though I1 held the tool and guided it to make the shape there
was an overrrididiinngg influence guiding my hands when 1I
started the project I1 had confidence that something of that
nature would take place anyway when you received them
you said they were re incarnations of the originals
Fi nials are the lovely
have you had similar experiences afterthoughts of time
yes A few years ago a very close friend was in the hospital with terminal cancer I1 am not much
of an expert when it comes to giving comfort to those on beds of pain but I1 kept thinking of some
way I1 might bring her a little comfort again an angel came to the rescue with the suggestion that
I1 ttuunrnn out a wooden dumbbell in the lathe my first thought was what in the world will that do for
a person in her condition but I1 have learned not to question so a block of black walnut wood
went in the lathe and I1 started to make chips fly as I1 would in making any ordinary dumbbell when
it was finished I1 took it out and looked it over thoroughly and found no faults but the pressure
was on me to replace it in the lathe and remove more wood As I1 did so I1 could feel the tool being
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mack
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theneeded
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MB
mack
turnout
I1 have often read in your writings that we can only explain
our deepest feelings to those who have themselves participated in their own god awarenesses
this went through my mind just recently when I1 watched a TV show in which five astronauts who
walked on the moon were gathered as a group you can well imagine a very interesting and
instructive half hour later as I1 was thinking about it and letting my mind wander a thought came
to me about our physical life then ourspiritual and seemingly from nowhere the message came
ill bet that there are still other kinds of life to come which have not even been hinted at up to now
1I just sat there and imagined that there will be other wwaayyshowers to come in the future or maybe
it will all happen on the other side after our spiritual and physical experiences have been
completed
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until the ball on each end was much smaller that had been my original intention then
I1 began to realize what the purpose of the dumbbell was to be the ends were to be small so as
to easily fit in the womans hands making it possible to be held easily and at the same time grip
it very tightly so that when bad pains came she could squeeze and twist it all she wanted to help
relieve the tension 1I gave it to her and she held it ijtujusstt as 1I have described but at the same time
she said what do I1 do with it to which I1 replied just what you are doing now and then I1
went on and explained the rest of it later it was reported what a comfort it turned out to be for
her
MB As you look back over ninety years what would you say were some of your greatest challenges
in life
mack let me put it this way my greatest joys and my most
agonizing moments were centered in my love for my wife
pearl before she was stricken with alzheimers disease
our love affair couldnt have been more satisfying we had
so much in common then came this sickness which was
to last for nine years I1 saw her life change her mind
become distorted at times there were days when she did
not even recognize me often I1 had to ask myself why did
this happen what have we done to cause it to happen
how should we pray in order to reach gods understand-ing
there were agonizing long suffering days and nights
and yet there was also beauty and revelations hidden in
these experiences times when we communicated as if in
spirit and felt a sacredness about everything that was among days to remember pearl
happening only those who walk with sorrow really know abndat an P
what sorrow is it holds both agony and ecstasy I1 mean
there were moments when death was near for her and she would look at me as if she felt that I1
would always be with her our promise to each other that the first to die would make contact with
the other does not seem to bear fruit maybe it is too soon or I1 should become more sensitive
I1 dont doubt the possibility of communication it is comforting for me to think of her now as being
happy free from the hindering physical body and having a chance to learn anything she wishes
MB could you give us a summation on what you feel are vital truths to live by which have come to
you
mack As a result of my reading and personal experience god is becoming an increasingly more vital
part of my life I1 know now after having been earthbound for ninety years that it was given to
me to be a spiritual explorer at heart one can only share mystical happenings with those who
have also lived long and qquueessttfujfuulillllllylyy
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MB thats almost as exciting as a moon walk we know so little about the other side of life dont we
what would you hazard as a guess for some significant things to happen before the end of this
decade when you will reach your hundred mark
mack let me go out on a limb maybe several of them because the religious views which my mother
tried to instill in me or at least many of them have fallen by the wayside there is good in all
religions perhaps it can be pictured as paths leading to a mountaintop all of them reaching the
summit though some are rougher some are more crooked but all have their place and come
together eventually god as we know has many names but it is the same god there will be
no ssiiftttiinngg at his right or left and there will be no favoritism aAilHl will be equal in a true spiritual sense
but some will have made more progress than others but the more is not the point the spirit
in following the quest is the important factor
and so there is also an optimistic side never has the quest for peace in gods name become
so deep so intensive as a movement in the hearts of people never have there been so many
wonderful miraculous unbelievable discoveries in the fields of science in the power of
imagination in the miracles of communication and the hope of a new heaven and earth not out
there somewhere but in the human heart this is where the new religious movement must unite
must cease to be exclusive must represent the new summit of international and interfaith
understanding never has there been such a vanguard of young people who are more seriously
minded than we realize and who are determined not to countenance anotherwar if at all possible
perhaps it is asking too much to expect the various races colors and creeds ever to really resolve
their many differences but our dream should never be lost in the final goal of one world one god
one people As you once said in a recent OUTREACH the stars of this hhooppeeaarree still there
MB thank you mack thank you for your sharing heres to your creative life and thought continuing
straight through from your goth to your centennial year
all rights reserved
no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without permission in writing from the publisher
while copies of OUTREACH will be sent to anyone upon request your tax deductible contributions are invited
additional copies for use by organizations study groups etc are available write to fellowship FOR SPIRITUAL
understanding PO box 816 palos verdes estates CA 90274 phone 213 33773322666699
no 265
another war